Colin G Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Hi all, Would anyone have by chance a manual or repair guide for my inverter. I know its a legacy unit, but I think it does ok just for now getting into the renewable energy sector. I have already changed out 2 IGBTs which had gone short circuit, but unfortunately when the unit syncs up to the line frequency and starts to ramp up with the leds going quicker and quicker it then blew again. I want to test everything I can on the output side, I just hope its something very simple. I am running this off of 2 x 80Ah batteries to give me 24v. Hope someone out there can help, Sean has been brilliant and has reached out to Power Jack too, hopefully will hear back from them soon, Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 Umm...unfortunately I have never had one of these on my bench, so it's really difficult to provide any assistance. Best bet would probably be to see if you could get a replacement board. I will note that these are Chinese products: there is no "repair manual" or anything of that sort. Not like this is a carefully engineered and fully documented U.S. product (though those are largely a thing of the past anyhow...easier to rebrand Chinese products!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted March 26, 2021 Author Share Posted March 26, 2021 Hi Sid, thanks for the reply. Appreciate it. Powerjack888 channel on youtube has guides on this, and lots of channels out there that had a manual or a guide of repair that even came with the product. I know its like trying to find a needle in a haystack, Im hoping someone out there may have a schematic I can reference to aid in my diagnosis. I got this a while ago, and I thought just changing the blown IGBTs would do the job. It worked then stopped again. There is 1 smd zener diode between the gate and source of each of the 4 IGBTs, and Im trying to figure out what the diodes should test to. The IGBTs are FGL60N100BNTD, if thats any help, but I think Im on a wild goose chase at the moment. I have new IGBTs to replace but Im not gonna try firing it up yet until Im sure all is well. There doesnt seem to be any problems on the DC side though. Thanks a million, Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 That zener diode likely serves to prevent spikes from blowing out the IGBT gates; it should register ~0.7v with meter positive to the emitter of the IGBT, and likely somewhere under 18v with meter negative to the emitter of the IGBT. Somewhere a little less than the max gate-emitter voltage. Don't think the zener would be at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 Thanks Sid, I have replaced the 2 blown IGBTs and needed to replace a 1002 smd resistor. All I think looks ok, but to be on the safe side, I am putting a 2A quick blow on the AC side to save my IGBTs as they are not cheap, and are from a reputable electronics company and not ebay. It seemed to work ok before up to a point where it was working out the max power point it think, as the boogie leds went from slow to quick to faster and faster, etc, the blew the fuse and the 2 IGBTs. As I have said its a PSWGT-1200, without the lcd display. I have seen users run these units off of 24v batteries, I have 2 x 12v 80Ah Yuasa sealed units, could this be what is causing my problems? Is it because these batteries can deliver a higher wattage than say a standard solar panel and its going into output runaway. I suppose I either limit the current somehow, or run this unit from the output of a charge controller that current limits to the inverter. Any advice always greatly appreciated. Kindest regards Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dochubert Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 Colin, I'll donate my 2 cents worth here. Hope you don't mind... I have two of these I played with a couple of years ago with disappointing results. One is a 1200w and the other is an 1800w. First, powerjack said in their instructions for these not to connect them to batteries. Probably supports your theory that the batteries are causing it to 'run away' until it self-destructs. Specifically, you are supposed to size your solar panel input to the wattage limits of the inverter. This is from memory, as I can't find any paperwork/manuals that came with mine, so accuracy is not guaranteed. Second, even connected to correct size panels, mine seemed to work sometimes and do nothing useful most of the time. Disappointing. Eventually I got frustrated, put them on a shelf in the shed, and mostly forgot them. In my opinion, they just aren't worth the time and trouble spent messing with them. Powerjack sadly is not known for building quality products and the grid tied units are a good example of that. Probably more productive use of funds would be getting a regular powerjack or genetry inverter that will appreciate your batteries and give you a solid output. Sorry I can't offer more positive information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted March 30, 2021 Author Share Posted March 30, 2021 Hi there, Thank you so much for the very useful information you have supplied me its certainly positive in my book and the information is certainly worth more than 2 cents in value. Thanks for confirming the statement about using batteries. Do you think its worth connecting this up to a charge controller that can output 10A max?. All your comments are well received, and great. Shame I cant find any paperwork anywhere on this unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 20 hours ago, Colin G said: I have seen users run these units off of 24v batteries, I have 2 x 12v 80Ah Yuasa sealed units, could this be what is causing my problems? Is it because these batteries can deliver a higher wattage than say a standard solar panel and its going into output runaway. I suppose I either limit the current somehow, or run this unit from the output of a charge controller that current limits to the inverter. What size batteries were these "other users" running the units off of? It's worth noting that older and smaller batteries (particularly lead-acid) will have a much higher resistance that this could sorta get away with. Like @dochubert said, grid-tie inverters (across the board) are designed to connect directly to solar panels, no battery anywhere in the circuit. While I've never used a grid-tie unit before, it is worth noting that the principle of operation is for the processor to find the "maximum power point" of the solar panels. They do this by progressively loading the panels down and running a V*I calculation to find the peak wattage; at some point, the voltage will start to fall, and the processor will back off to the "peak power" setting. It is worth noting that solar panels' "maximum power amps" is practically next door to "short circuit amps" (i.e. 7.07A max power amps, and 7.47A short-circuit on a 330W Boviet). With a battery, however, there is no "peak power" setting until you're at a dead short--current just keeps going up as the voltage goes down. Worst part of that is if the processor's "current sense" range maxes out just above the rated maximum power (for peak resolution in the mathematics), that means the processor will be absolutely clueless as to what's going on as the current spirals out of control and blows your IGBTs. Not saying this is happening, nor that there isn't some fault with the grid-tie inverters. At this point, it's really hard to say exactly what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dochubert Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 11 hours ago, Colin G said: All your comments are well received, and great. Thanks for being so nice about my mostly negative comments. Maybe you could try running the inverter off of just solar panels to see if it works correctly, then progress to some kind of current-limited battery input. Just a thought.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 Hi guys, Thanks you all for such amazing input and detailed explanation as to what could be and what is going on. No worries on the comments, all greatly received I revisited the youtube channel, doh, Im such a doughnut. What the guy was saying was that there are panels tied to a charge controller going to the battery bank, and a change over switch to switch from the charger controller solar input, over to the input of the inverter. The batteries never actually powered the inverter, although the commentary was a bit vague. So it looks like this thing is solar panel only, and the mppt is from the processor trying to work out what it can get before power drop and hitting max current draw, solar good, batteries bad idea. As you will never get to a point where there is a power drop, not on these 2 beasts I have as a battery bank. All makes sense. Guys you are all super stars, sorry for wasting your time, and I feel that I have got to the bottom of things now. I will keep you updated when I have hooked it up to an appropriate panel. Thanks a million to you all, Regards Col. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted February 17, 2022 Author Share Posted February 17, 2022 Hi all, Please can someone help me, I now have a Power Jack PSWGT-1200 with LCD screen so its a bit more recent than my previous unit. I have been donated this unit, however it appear to not have the current sensor inside, which is attached to the hot wire/live from the grid, which should be connected to the LCD board. Please can someone tell me where I can get one to install on this unit. As this unit has current sensing, I take it that this is only for monitoring and calculating values displayed on the LCD. I was hoping that it may manage current output, and as such this unit possibly could be run off of batteries? Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated, Kind regards. Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 Well, could you take the current sensor from your other unit?? That might give you a clue. Am not familiar with the PJ grid-tie inverters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dochubert Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 The pswgt1200 is one of the units I have. See pic I previously posted above. It is still likely it will not run off of batteries, and will self sestruct if you try it. The current sensor for the lcd screen has nothing to do with the unit's output current sensing and/or current limiting abilities. The unit's control circuits operate independently of the lcd screen. You can unplug the lcd screen completely and the unit will still run the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 Hi, Thank you for the reply, that makes sense. Could you tell me how I can test my lcd screen on a bench without powering up the inverter at all please, what voltage does it need to power it on? Also, do you know where I can get a compatible CT clamp so that I can connect it to the lcd board. Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dochubert Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Colin G said: Could you tell me how I can test my lcd screen on a bench That is something I have never done. Sorry. For that I would have to refer you back to Sid. I can say that the lcd screen for that inverter is no different from those used in other powerjack products, so a current transformer (ct) from almost any older model powerjack inverter would probably work. I say older model because powerjack did change the lcd screens slightly at some point, and lcd's from newer models now have different connectors/pinouts, so they could also use a different ct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted February 20, 2022 Author Share Posted February 20, 2022 Great stuff, thanks for your reply, I will take on yor advice, and hope to hear from SID soon. I have seen that these LCD boards power up from 12v, so before I dive in, I had a magnified inspection of this board. This is a Power Meter-DC REV:1.3, 2014-12-10. I have seen later boards that have a harness soldered to the board, however mine has 3 plug sockets, L1, L2, L3, L3 being 12v. I have noticed on this board that it has a SMD capacitor missing at location C2, which is next to the LCD microcontroller, PIC16F1939, would anyone happen to know what the value of this is, because I have a feeling that this is what is stopping the board from working. Thanks a million guys, Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 21 hours ago, dochubert said: so a current transformer (ct) from almost any older model powerjack inverter would probably work. I say older model because powerjack did change the lcd screens slightly at some point, and lcd's from newer models now have different connectors/pinouts, so they could also use a different ct. This I cannot help on; I do not know anywhere to purchase said sensors except from Power Jack themselves. No idea what the specification is on the grid-tie boards. Remember, PJ is extremely good at actually soldering in different resistors/caps to make something work--making it impossible to provide a blanket across-the-board answer. 5 hours ago, Colin G said: I have noticed on this board that it has a SMD capacitor missing at location C2, which is next to the LCD microcontroller, PIC16F1939, would anyone happen to know what the value of this is, because I have a feeling that this is what is stopping the board from working. Have to dig through my boxes to see if I have a junked LCD board of that version that happens to have that cap on it, desolder the cap and measure it with my meter.... I haven't responded to any of these things because I don't have the answers. Have never seen one of the grid-tie inverters in the first place, never looked inside or done any digging into them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Looked at a board. Don't think I'll be able to measure that cap with my meter (resolution ~0.1nF), though it likely is somewhere in the 10-47pF range. I'd guess 22pF, as it's a crystal load cap. Likely should run fine without it, though...just not as stable or as accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 20, 2022 Share Posted February 20, 2022 Best I can measure is that it's ~22pF (that being a common size somewhere close to what my meter measured). The LCD board under test worked just fine without C2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Hi SId, Great stuff thanks for researching for me, really appreciate it. Looks like this board has had it as I have tried to power it up off a 12v supply with no success. Shame. If you have any other ideas I would be highly appreciative. Many thanks, Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted February 21, 2022 Author Share Posted February 21, 2022 Guys, Think I am going to give up on these PSWGT-1200s, just blown 2 IGBT during a power outage on my one without a display, these are useless, and only fit for a door stop in my opinion. Been working fine for a few months, but whatever savings I make they go right back into parts replacement. My PSWGT-1200 with the lcd is still proving a head ache. The LCD board does power up to an extent, there is no back light and I can see the matrix is on, however it might be the smd transistors that switch on the pic micro controller and the led back light as otherwise I have another door stop. Dah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dochubert Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 5 hours ago, Colin G said: Think I am going to give up on these PSWGT-1200s That's what I decided a few years ago. Put them on the shelf in the back shed and forgot them until your posts. Mine worked somewhat haphazardly when I was trying them, but even on their best days never seemed to produce the power they should have. And then they would go up and down in output under steady sun for no obvious reason. Soon tired of them and went to some Xantrex grid tie units. Those worked pretty well until the day the power company showed up. (Big Brother doesn't care much for renegade solar producers) Threatened me with all kinds of problems, so shut them down and only do off grid solar now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 21, 2022 Share Posted February 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Colin G said: The LCD board does power up to an extent, there is no back light and I can see the matrix is on, however it might be the smd transistors that switch on the pic micro controller and the led back light as otherwise I have another door stop. The backlight is controlled by a transistor--but the MCU should be wired directly to the 7805 (5-volt linear voltage regulator). It's not improbable that the PIC got toasted--though I haven't personally seen that on the PJ LCD boards. If the 7805 isn't functioning correctly (i.e. ~5.0v on the output side of it), that'll definitely cause issues. Anything past 7.0v on the output of the 7805 will destroy the LCD and the PIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin G Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 I worked from the 7805, and that is producing a steady 5v. I think I have spotted it, next to the PIC, there is a location for Y1(oscillator) I think, is there supposed to be a component at this location as it is missing. Maybe thats the cause, I missed this as I thought it was located on the underside of the board. Any help here is always deeply appreciated as always. Many thanks, Col. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheButcher Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 (edited) Lots of microcontrollers do have internal oscillators that will run without an external crystal / resonator just not as stably. What's the part number on the PIC? PIC16F1939 is one of them by the looks of it. Edited February 22, 2022 by TheButcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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