Jump to content
Genetry Solar Forums

Looking at your 6kw inverter


Recommended Posts

Well I did have a breaker on my victron a 30a which is 15a higher then what the unit puts out its a 12/24 15a.  I found out I didn't need to woorrya bout putting a breaker on it since it had a 20a fuse already on it, which I like, the MSB I Figured wouldn't need a fuse or breaker, since it said in the manul don't have the solar panels hooked up with out the battery first.  so I was guessing it didn't need one, but now you said aobut that, I will order two 75a breakers for them. and a 50a for my everford.  Geesh breakers, and breakers.  Almost at the end of rebuilding my batteries with solder joints.  working on the big boy now, hope to have it all done before the master get back and maybe the Sun will come out next week to charge my battery bank, been non stop rain here for over a week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/11/2021 at 8:09 PM, Sid Genetry Solar said:

I don't understand why the breaker isn't working properly...can you send me a photo of the make/model label/sticker thingie?

Here's the label & schematic how it was wired.

3.jpg

sch.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bossrox said:

Here's the label & schematic how it was wired.

3.jpg

sch.png

Your breaker is manufactured by CBI Electric (Circuit Breaker Industries Lesotho).

It is one of their DD-frame breakers, family listing here: https://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/content/circuit-breakers-equipment

Took a bit of digging around the website, but I finally found the proper family manual...https://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/DDFRAME_SERIES_DAT_6PAGES_1.14MB.pdf

I am assuming the full part number of your breaker (found by Googling the "reorder part number" and finding the full number on an eBay listing) is D-2AAMX3NBIK250BXX-XXXXXBDVAX3-X.

Mouthful there.

It breaks down as follows:

Group 1: D = DD Frame
Group 2: 2 = DD Type
Group 3: A = Front mount, rectangular aperture, standard (toggle) handle type
Group 4: A = Standard Handle
Group 5: MX = Stud terminals, M6 or 1/4-20 (100A Max)
Group 6: 3 = 3 pole metric (M6)
Group 7: N = 80vDC
Group 8: BI = Medium delay 50 / 60 Hz BS & inertia delay [Pulse Tolerance (X-In) = 16-20
Group 9: K250 = 250A
Group 10: BX = Circuit breaker (series trip, current coil in series)
Group 11: X = N/A (AUX and Alarm switches)

Group 12: XX = N/A (Voltage and Current Ratings for Dual Control, Shunt and Relay Trip Construction)
Group 13: X = N/A (Terminal Options for Dual Control, Shunt and Relay Coils)
Group 14: X = N/A (Voltage for Rocker Handle)
Group 15: X = N/A (Terminal for Illuminated Rocker)
Group 16: B = Black handle, white marking
Group 17: D = I – O and ON - OFF markings
Group 18: V = Vertical (standard mounting, line at the top) [If  the  breaker  needs  to  be  reverse  fed,  the  printing  will  be  upside  down  and  codes 1 or 2 should be selected]
Group 19: A = Standard marking, standard handle (I – O and ON - OFF and ampere rating)
Group 20: X = N/A (Inter-phase Barrier and Terminal Cover)
Group 21: 3 = UL listed (UL489A), IEC / EN 60947-2, CE  (DC [telecommunication])

Group 22: X = N/A (Safety Marks)

 

So I don't see anything weird with the breaker specifications itself.  Not sure why it seems to be tripping at such a low voltage.  Have you checked breaker polarity markings?

One other potentially of-interest finding on CBI's website is that with magnetic-hydraulic breakers, orientation has an affect on the trip current (very last FAQ here😞
CB%20degrees-01.jpg?itok=1PmOGMp6

 

 

There's a large amount of information available in the product overview PDF.  I don't have time to read through it, but there might be some critical clues in there as to why the breakers aren't working as expected?  https://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/CBI_APPLICATION_GUIDE_CAT_30PAGES_9MB.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Your breaker is manufactured by CBI Electric (Circuit Breaker Industries Lesotho).

It is one of their DD-frame breakers, family listing here: https://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/content/circuit-breakers-equipment

Took a bit of digging around the website, but I finally found the proper family manual...https://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/DDFRAME_SERIES_DAT_6PAGES_1.14MB.pdf

I am assuming the full part number of your breaker (found by Googling the "reorder part number" and finding the full number on an eBay listing) is D-2AAMX3NBIK250BXX-XXXXXBDVAX3-X.

Mouthful there.

It breaks down as follows:

Group 1: D = DD Frame
Group 2: 2 = DD Type
Group 3: A = Front mount, rectangular aperture, standard (toggle) handle type
Group 4: A = Standard Handle
Group 5: MX = Stud terminals, M6 or 1/4-20 (100A Max)
Group 6: 3 = 3 pole metric (M6)
Group 7: N = 80vDC
Group 8: BI = Medium delay 50 / 60 Hz BS & inertia delay [Pulse Tolerance (X-In) = 16-20
Group 9: K250 = 250A
Group 10: BX = Circuit breaker (series trip, current coil in series)
Group 11: X = N/A (AUX and Alarm switches)

Group 12: XX = N/A (Voltage and Current Ratings for Dual Control, Shunt and Relay Trip Construction)
Group 13: X = N/A (Terminal Options for Dual Control, Shunt and Relay Coils)
Group 14: X = N/A (Voltage for Rocker Handle)
Group 15: X = N/A (Terminal for Illuminated Rocker)
Group 16: B = Black handle, white marking
Group 17: D = I – O and ON - OFF markings
Group 18: V = Vertical (standard mounting, line at the top) [If  the  breaker  needs  to  be  reverse  fed,  the  printing  will  be  upside  down  and  codes 1 or 2 should be selected]
Group 19: A = Standard marking, standard handle (I – O and ON - OFF and ampere rating)
Group 20: X = N/A (Inter-phase Barrier and Terminal Cover)
Group 21: 3 = UL listed (UL489A), IEC / EN 60947-2, CE  (DC [telecommunication])

Group 22: X = N/A (Safety Marks)

 

So I don't see anything weird with the breaker specifications itself.  Not sure why it seems to be tripping at such a low voltage.  Have you checked breaker polarity markings?

One other potentially of-interest finding on CBI's website is that with magnetic-hydraulic breakers, orientation has an affect on the trip current (very last FAQ here😞
CB%20degrees-01.jpg?itok=1PmOGMp6

 

 

There's a large amount of information available in the product overview PDF.  I don't have time to read through it, but there might be some critical clues in there as to why the breakers aren't working as expected?  https://www.cbi-lowvoltage.co.za/sites/default/files/downloads/CBI_APPLICATION_GUIDE_CAT_30PAGES_9MB.pdf

All that technical data is over my head but it says on the label, reverse feedable which I'd assume means it's bi-directional? Another thing that concerned me was the terminals size, about 1/4 to 5/16's studs. That seems rather wimpy for handling a 250 amp load. I'm kinda wondering what all the hoopla is about using breakers anyways. All the electronics have their own built in protection so the only hazard I can see is if the battery cables ever get shorted out & that's something that would rarely happen on it's own using proper wiring size & more than likely only happen while you were wiring them & crossed some wires & in the event of a battery going into a fatal thermal overload, a breaker would be worthless anyways. Just my opinion it's over paranoia for a rare risk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Bossrox said:

All that technical data is over my head but it says on the label, reverse feedable which I'd assume means it's bi-directional? Another thing that concerned me was the terminals size, about 1/4 to 5/16's studs. That seems rather wimpy for handling a 250 amp load. I'm kinda wondering what all the hoopla is about using breakers anyways. All the electronics have their own built in protection so the only hazard I can see is if the battery cables ever get shorted out & that's something that would rarely happen on it's own using proper wiring size & more than likely only happen while you were wiring them & crossed some wires & in the event of a battery going into a fatal thermal overload, a breaker would be worthless anyways. Just my opinion it's over paranoia for a rare risk.

In the end, I've put my 2 cents forward...the final decision is yours to make, and I will respect that.

But I will say that all LF power inverters (that I've seen) do NOT have ANY fused/safety protection on the DC input side.  (Genetry inverters included.)  Battery terminals are pretty much wired directly to the FETs...and that's it.  In the rare risk that something could go wrong with the FETs, they and/or the PCBs literally become drafted into the "emergency fuse" realm...where you hope that enough things will blow out fast enough to stop power flow before a fire starts.

I did get a good laugh at one customer who was doing some bench inverter experiments...and couldn't figure out why their 200A GJ1-series breaker always instantly tripped whenever they tried to turn it on.  Come to find out that they'd accidentally wired up the inverter in reverse.  Thanks to the breaker, they were able to correct the polarity...and then everything worked perfectly.

I will note that most HF inverters tend to have inline DC-side fuses.  But they're very poor at handling any sort of surge load.

 

Still, all that said, I don't understand why your breakers are tripping too soon.  What are you using to measure the current?  You might want to check the breaker orientation, see if that makes as much of a change as the CBI diagram indicated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Uhm, you won't catch me now running things without a fuse or breaker.  If you got the batteries and stuff in a outhouse in not in your house that up to you, but if its in your house such as mine at the moment I reather have fuse and breakers to keep any chance of a fire going off.  Also I have what they call Fire Balls over my stuff as well, if a fire did break out, that fire ball would set off and supposed to exstingush 400sq of space per ball.  that room that I got my stuff in is only 4 by 3.  well under 400sq, and I got three fire balls in there lol.  if the GS inverter had caught fire it would have shown up at sean door step cover in it lol.

 

I already working on ducting cold air into that room, as those fans on the GS pushes all the air out of the room when they kick on, which is fine, but I want to make sure cold air is being forced in the room.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I have what they call Fire Balls over my stuff as well, if a fire did break out, that fire ball would set off and supposed to exstingush 400sq of space per ball

 

I think I  will get  a Fire Ball .  Walmart  sell for 53 dollars  .   Thank you for  the information .  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, dickson said:

 I have what they call Fire Balls over my stuff as well, if a fire did break out, that fire ball would set off and supposed to exstingush 400sq of space per ball

 

I think I  will get  a Fire Ball .  Walmart  sell for 53 dollars  .   Thank you for  the information .  

I got minme off of amazon, probley a lot cheapier.  Make sure its close to where you think the fire will show up, cause as soon as flames hit it, it will scream and then exploded.  Not had one do it, but from what I read, its a sight to see.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sid, I've just about had it with the delay getting my inverter out, I msg'd Sean yesterday for a status with no reply thru today. You said it should have gone out last week. If that frickin' thing isn't on it's way by the end of the week, I'm cancelling the order & shopping elsewhere & this experience will get posted on youtube. What's it gonna be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Bossrox said:

Sid, I've just about had it with the delay getting my inverter out, I msg'd Sean yesterday for a status with no reply thru today. You said it should have gone out last week. If that frickin' thing isn't on it's way by the end of the week, I'm cancelling the order & shopping elsewhere & this experience will get posted on youtube. What's it gonna be?

Deep breath.

Sigh.

I am fully aware that none of us can control your choices.  I do know that Sean is struggling to keep his head above the water with all the responsibilities he has--and with no help to boot.  Warranty work for Power Jack, trying to answer hundreds of international phone calls (or just giving up in frustration and turning his phone off so he can get something done on the bench), assembling and testing Genetry Solar inverters, and then losing track of Genetry Solar customers in the midst of all that..............

Sean's phone automatically shuts off outside of business hours, and he will not respond to calls/texts/emails after hours, in an attempt to maintain his sanity.  Right now, we do not yet have a CRM system to automatically catalogue customer communication (via phone, text, email, etc.) and prioritize a "worklist" at the start of every day--so it has to be done manually.  And unfortunately this results in it being super easy for customers to fall through the cracks.

I am trying to do what I can to help by answering questions on the forum (instead of working on the design, programming/debugging, supply chain logistics, and at long last writing a user manual).  But that doesn't mean I necessarily have a clue what's actually going on at the warehouse.  I'm over four hours' drive from Sean's place--I can't just run over there and see what's going on.

I was under the impression that it would ship last week, as noted in my PM to you ("Hopefully your inverter will ship Thursday"), but evidently there was miscommunication between Sean and I on this.

Tomorrow morning when Sean is back at work again, I will see if he can put your order ahead of the customers who have been waiting since last October.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, it's here finally thank God! But no instruction manual or warranty card? I just want to verify if this is a 48v model & was reconfigured for only 120 volts before I hook it up? & where do I pull the full 120 from.... the L1 N L2 & combine L1 & L2 or the L1L & L2N & is there a manual I can download?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bossrox said:

Well, it's here finally thank God! But no instruction manual or warranty card? I just want to verify if this is a 48v model & was reconfigured for only 120 volts before I hook it up? & where do I pull the full 120 from.... the L1 N L2 & combine L1 & L2 or the L1L & L2N & is there a manual I can download?

DOes the big terminal have two wires on the l1 and L2?  if you take a prob and put on l1 and l2 and it don't read 240v then its a 120.  

 

 

 

 

If you have the inverter on the table looking at the AC side, from left to right on the big terminal is Input N Input l1 Ouput l2 N and L1 or in your case if its a 120 only then it'll be  N L1 input L1 N L1 output  Bothe the output will be 120v   each one rated 30A output same as mine.  take a prob and do a contentuity test and if you put on bout output it should beep, if its a 240v then it won't beep cause its a split.  I think I'm right Sid will say otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bossrox said:

But no instruction manual or warranty card?

For the time being anyway.

2 hours ago, Bossrox said:

is there a manual I can download?

Not fully yet...it's a work in progress on my laptop.  So much to do...code, design, supply chain, prototyping, testing, debugging...and writing the manual.  I can PM you the unfinished manual if that'd help?

 

2 hours ago, Bossrox said:

I just want to verify if this is a 48v model & was reconfigured for only 120 volts before I hook it up?

It should be 48v.  Like @The Blind Wolf sorta pointed out, you can apply anywhere from 10-75vDC to it...and if the applied voltage is within the acceptable range of the system setup, it'll fire right up.  If the applied voltage is out of range, it'll harmlessly throw a voltage error.

Sean configured it for 120v single phase.  Unfortunately with the end panels precut for the more common L1 / N / L2 240v split-phase setup, it is a tad more confusing.  Here's a screengrab with some added stickers for clarity:

image.png.c598ef62bdfa1f7c5f9ebe0a6cf5f01f.png

Both lines marked "L2" are your "line" output.  The "N" lines are the neutral lines.  (The "E" is the AC input.)

 

 

1 hour ago, The Blind Wolf said:

take a prob and do a contentuity test and if you put on bout output it should beep

Continuity checks won't be of any value, as the transformer coils have a very low resistance (ideally under 1 ohm; I don't recall the exact spec).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will point out that warranty cards don't really do anything anymore other than potentially (though not very likely) have a company warrant a device even if you lost the sales receipt.  MSI would not warranty a motherboard that I bought from a 3rd party seller on Amazon (fulfilled by amazon) after it failed in less than a month, even though I filled out the warranty card and sent a copy of the receipt because the seller was not an authorized reseller.  That being said I have dealt with plenty of companies who won't honor a warranty card without the original sales receipt.  This system is just as good since you and Sean both have a copy of the original sales receipt and assuming that Sean is keeping good and organized records and following the 3-2-1 rules of backups of every inverter sale, he should be able to easily pull up your particular inverter sale in the future if a problem should arise.
 

3 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Not fully yet...it's a work in progress on my laptop.  So much to do...code, design, supply chain, prototyping, testing, debugging...and writing the manual.  I can PM you the unfinished manual if that'd help?

One thing that may be helpful for you as you write the manual is to post a link to the in progress manual as a suggestion only Google doc or as a section on the forum with sections and that way if we have questions or comments we could add them and it might make writing the manual faster as people ask questions or point things out.  This might be especially helpful for the troubleshooting section as it can sometimes be difficult to put yourself in the shoes of your customers as far as technical skill level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's hooked up & running great. I'm glad it finally got it here, I was about to throw in the towel & get a Growatt but this is better suited for an off grid system & I'm really impressed with it's performance so far. The fans sound like a jet engine firing up on start up but at 25% load the fans just come on at a low speed & shuts back down pretty fast. Very quite at that load.

I fried a charger tho, forgot to disconnect them before switching to 48v & they were set for 24v. Funny tho, 1 of them is still ok but that was an expensive goof up but now that I'm on 48v, the surviving charger will now take double the panel input & give me the same power as both running at 24v so it won't set me back too bad while the that charger goes to the shop.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Bossrox said:

It's hooked up & running great. I'm glad it finally got it here, I was about to throw in the towel & get a Growatt but this is better suited for an off grid system & I'm really impressed with it's performance so far. The fans sound like a jet engine firing up on start up but at 25% load the fans just come on at a low speed & shuts back down pretty fast. Very quite at that load.

I fried a charger tho, forgot to disconnect them before switching to 48v & they were set for 24v. Funny tho, 1 of them is still ok but that was an expensive goof up but now that I'm on 48v, the surviving charger will now take double the panel input & give me the same power as both running at 24v so it won't set me back too bad while the that charger goes to the shop.

 

Glad its working.  Sorry to hear about that charger.  Yeah at 70c the fans will kick on at 25% on and off when one of them tempture in the GS hits 109F, stays on for a few seconds then goes off.  You think that is a lot of air. heck, when my two GS are working and then kick on the fans its like a hurrican in the room.it pulls the air from the button to the top, so its gets the cold co concraet.  I just installed another 24v batt just now, almost ready to do a full house power up.I know I can run 110v all day with no issue. its just having enough amps to handle the big 240v loads.  you are lucky, your setup will only require 150A at 48v to max it out at 6k, mine nearly 300A

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Bossrox said:

The fans sound like a jet engine firing up on start up but at 25% load the fans just come on at a low speed & shuts back down pretty fast.

Yeah, the fans are rated 250CFM each at full power...yes, they sound very much like a jet engine at full throttle.  Perhaps a tad overkill, but (up to a point) increasing heat dissipation often will allow a higher power output from the same size unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Yeah, the fans are rated 250CFM each at full power...yes, they sound very much like a jet engine at full throttle.  Perhaps a tad overkill, but (up to a point) increasing heat dissipation often will allow a higher power output from the same size unit.

I think you should rename these Genatry Hurracan Solar Power Inverters.  Simply saying.  If its not making a hurrcan force air cooling, your not making any power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...