jon snow Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just Got them last night in mexico, anyone on the forum know anything has changed on this model it has a 60Amp breaker on charging input ... I also noticed they have a metal panel for protection which i have never seen anywhere else.... Checked if there is anything rattling from transportation, but did not hear anything from shaking, do you recommend me to open them up for inspection? WhatsApp Video 2023-01-01 at 4.39.14 AM.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 hours ago, jon snow said: do you recommend me to open them up for inspection? Only if you're very familiar with electricity and safety principles, as well as knowing what to look for. I'd rather the inverter blow up due to shipping damage, than for it to blow you up.......one of the 2 items in question are slightly more replaceable than the other 🤯🤪 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Checked if there is anything rattling from transportation, but did not hear anything from shaking, do you recommend me to open them up for inspection? BLOW it up in less than 10 days after delivery and paypal will give full refund no matter what Jack say . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotMario Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 Has anyone here tested these new separate-box units? Any prayer this might get 10KW? I really love PJ's cases and modular arrangement. If only they'd work out their circuitry! But i know that wont happen because they probably don't have anyone who understands it and they keep copying the same design. Just a little innovation, guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon snow Posted January 3 Author Share Posted January 3 Thanks for recommendations guys, will hook up oscilloscope and do a load testing to see how much it pulls on both legs! stay tuned... I want to use the charging feature, at least to have that option... I heard about the charging problems with these units where the internal relay might still be active while the inverter is turning on and I am planning to setup a relay which will deactivate the charging before the UPS charging finishes charging to avoid that problem... do you think thats a viable option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, jon snow said: I heard about the charging problems with these units where the internal relay might still be active while the inverter is turning on and I am planning to setup a relay which will deactivate the charging before the UPS charging finishes charging to avoid that problem... do you think thats a viable option? Anyone's guess--smoke will tell. If the firmware doesn't know how to walk properly, it's going to stumble regardless of a crutch. also worth noting that the AC input is 120v only, limiting your max power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaticsLive Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 That is a nice idea splitting them up. Good for better cooling management and a workaround for shipping issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon snow Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 (edited) Confirmed that it works at 4600 Watts with a mix of pump, Air Conditioner and various motors and heater loads... almost ran out of big things to check with... First Photo is waveform at 4600 Watts, the last photo is waveform at 150 Watts.... Not sure if i want to push it more as i ran on one L1 only... Any guesses if it can pull more wattage based on this waveform? Edited January 5 by jon snow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, jon snow said: Any guesses if it can pull more wattage based on this waveform? What you're seeing is sine wave saturation due to lack of headroom. PJ likes to use a 36v -> 230v transformer spec. If you're running 240v output, that means the input voltage has to be (230 / 36 = 6.38; 240 / 6.38) = 37.59vAC bare minimum * square root of 2 (1.414) = 53.11vDC absolute bare minimum DC input for a pure sine wave. Under load, transformer losses will result in the transformer input voltage needing to go higher yet to maintain the 240v output. And under load, your battery voltage will sag. The only real way to determine if the inverter "can handle" a load is to see if it either (a) blows up or (b) overheats at said load after half an hour of continuous run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Not sure if i want to push it more as i ran on one L1 only... Any guesses if it can pull more wattage based on this waveform? My ASL9.0 never get 40 amps . You are running at the max on L1 . Your 20000 watt is the best from Powerjack I seen so far . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotMario Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 That sine wave is... truncated... but still identifiable compared to the square wave you tend to see when you max out the PowerJacks, so you might be able to push it a fair bit more, particularly if you add L2 to the equation. You might be able to pull off 10K, though it might not look very pretty. You have a 'scope, so i'm going to assume you're technically equipped to handle a failure if it happens. I'd go for it. 🙂 Not 100% sure about your listening, but i know my "12K" U-Power claims 3KW continuous per leg. So if yours says 5KW continuous per leg, it would be cool that it might actually pull off it's small-print-advertised spec. (I'm not talking about the box, i'm talking about the sales listing description) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Not 100% sure about your listening, but i know my "12K" U-Power claims 3KW continuous per leg. So if yours says 5KW continuous per leg, it would be cool that it might actually pull off it's small-print-advertised spec. (I'm not talking about the box, i'm talking about the sales listing description) I think that the UPOWER inverter is a better design than the Powerjack inverter . I test for max load with a temperature gun and shut the inverter down at 165 degree F . and my max load is 6200 watts for the ASL9.0 transformer . The new 20000 watts UPOWER is equql to the GS 6kw from his load test . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotMario Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Pretty sure it's just a label. All the typical uncertainties apply. Some people get lucky. I got a 12K that seems to push 6K well enough that my laundry works. (~6K for up to around 15Min). Fan is similar in power to the ones on my GS. I would not consider it equivalent to a GS6. I do not have a 'scope, sadly, but i'm pretty sure the GS would have a nice clean sine wave at that load. His, while usable, is far from perfect - and would likely be worse as the load is pushed harder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 7 hours ago, NotMario said: I do not have a 'scope, sadly, but i'm pretty sure the GS would have a nice clean sine wave at that load. The GS inverter has an on-board 'scope on it 😉. Got ya covered... It comes down to headroom, battery voltage and transformer losses as to whether a pure sine can be maintained at full load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotMario Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: The GS inverter has an on-board 'scope on it 😉. Got ya covered... It comes down to headroom, battery voltage and transformer losses as to whether a pure sine can be maintained at full load. The skeptic in me cringes at the thought of trusting the on-board scope. He says "Lies! All lies!" But yes, the diagnostic scope screen shows a pretty clean wave through the entire load range. "Perfect... too perfect... ..." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 54 minutes ago, NotMario said: The skeptic in me cringes at the thought of trusting the on-board scope. He says "Lies! All lies!" But yes, the diagnostic scope screen shows a pretty clean wave through the entire load range. "Perfect... too perfect... ..." Haha, hehe. Of course I understand...any chintzy Chinese inverter would be liable to just display a perfect sine regardless of the output. I seem to recall hearing/seeing something of that sort on a YT video....where what the screen showed was anything but what the output actually was! But I can assure you that the 'scope on the GS inverter is real, it's not faked. If the output is not a sine wave, you'll see it--albeit limited by the low resolution of the screen. Lemme see...I should be able to show you a flat-topped sine wave on the GS 'scope pretty easily here.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 One caveat: any GS inverter with an A.1 / B control board WILL show a rather messed-up AC waveform, but this is NOT what's actually on the output! That's actually the result of what I thought was clever to use optoisolators to electrically isolate an analog waveform. Great on paper--and pretty poor in real life! All Rev. C boards use signal transformers for isolation, providing a much more accurate picture to the CPU of the actual waveforms! I'll get my bench inverter going here, and show a really flat-topped waveform on the 'scope. Pretty easy with my bench supply: I'll just turn the input voltage down way below the "pure sine minimum" and it'll flat-top. The difference here being that the GS inverter transformers' ratio is a lot steeper than a PJ, so there's more headroom--and as a result, it's far less likely to flat-top ("saturate"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 40vDC input, no load. There 'ya go! I made sure to include the Rev. C board in the background 😉. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon snow Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 Quick question as i am in a bit of doubt suddenly, is it ok to bond both N1 and N2 together to service the off grid house with one common Neutral or should I keep both Neutrals separate? Maybe was answered somewhere on the forum but cant seem to find answer and don't want to see magic smoke in the battery room... ^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, jon snow said: Quick question as i am in a bit of doubt suddenly, is it ok to bond both N1 and N2 together to service the off grid house with one common Neutral or should I keep both Neutrals separate? Maybe was answered somewhere on the forum but cant seem to find answer and don't want to see magic smoke in the battery room... ^^ We don't have any clear pictures of the inverter and/or how the boxes are currently wired together. My guess is that this is an "AMG"-style inverter, where you can wire the output for either 120v single phase OR 240v split-phase. And whether you can wire both "N" terminals together depends on which output type you'd like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 My guess is that this is an "AMG"-style inverter, where you can wire the output for either 120v single phase OR 240v split-phase. And whether you can wire both "N" terminals together depends on which output type you'd like. The picture show the back side of the new design 20000 watts 2 boxes Powerjack . From the front Option B is the safe way to bond the N1 and N2 togetrer . Option A is for two separate 120vac . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon snow Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: We don't have any clear pictures of the inverter and/or how the boxes are currently wired together. My guess is that this is an "AMG"-style inverter, where you can wire the output for either 120v single phase OR 240v split-phase. And whether you can wire both "N" terminals together depends on which output type you'd like. Yes, i have it connected as AMG style for two 120V outputs, ... thank you dickinson i almost tried to bond them without verifying... Edited January 6 by jon snow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 DO NOT bond the 2 neutrals N1 N2 . Option A is for 2 separate 120 vac . The back side is wired correctly . UPOWER done something right finally . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pilgrimvalley Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 the separate boxes is a definite plus for working inside, although they take up more space,,, not really a problem most of the time... it looks like the stainless steel protective covers now have a better fit,,,,they are basically to protect it during shipping anyways and do protect it a lot as the shipping companies routinely drop heavy things.... PowerJack manufactures the Upower inverters... at the PowerJack manufacturing plant... do not be afraid to remove the top covers....to take a look inside.....i have done this many times....there is no problem but always be careful when it is connected....best to check it all out before you connect to the battery.\ I never connect any inverter to the grid as I do all off-grid.... all my LiFePO4 battery charging is done via the PV solar panels in my off-grid builds... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon snow Posted February 7 Author Share Posted February 7 Quick update, the inverter almost melted at the post where transformer connects to control module at just 2KW for few hours... The nut seems to be made from regular steel...Another problem that does not help is that they reduced from four connector to just two... The manual suggest just put the lug behind the steel washer and bolt it down, so over 400 Amps going throught steel nuts and steel washer, disaster waiting to happen... I ordered some aluminium M10 nuts to try to replace the steel nuts... at least the rod seems to be made from aluminum... Anybody have a better solution? WhatsApp Video 2023-01-29 at 7.06.36 AM.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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