Jump to content
Genetry Solar Forums

DIY 8010 output 9 kw can replace Powerjack control board using Powerjack transformer for less than 900 dollars


dickson
 Share

Recommended Posts

Neat any chance you can point of the basics on the board, I think I guessed them.  Since you have one figure you have the general sections figured out.  Are those daughter boards easy to get?  Guessing the it uses the same generic ones others use, but not sure so wanted to ask.  Nice learning project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It all comes down to MOSFET drive and protection.  Sometimes adding a good dose of being "so bad that it actually works" helps quite a bit.  (It's amazing how much of a "Whack-A-Mole" things become when you try to improve a design with numerous design flaws!)

If the FET drive isn't strong enough to firmly switch the FETs, you'll get a lot more heat off the FETs--but if that's not a problem, you might be pretty well set!  Switching the FETs cleanly results in almost no FET heat even at full load--but a plethora of other entertaining situations have to be taken care of to prevent failure!

 

Worth noting that you're going to be awfully hard pressed to find a PJ transformer that will do 9kw continuously, 24/7...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are those daughter boards easy to get?  Guessing the it uses the same generic ones others use, but not sure so wanted to ask

The daughter board  is the EG 8010 with the  red light and cost about 13 dollars .   The company is SUNYIMA  that make the most reliable  EG 8010 inverter on Aliexpress .    EG 8010 inverter has the main board with heat sink and capacitors and mosfets that replace the PJ  mainboard .    The daughter board EG 8010 mounted vertical  is like the LF driver of the PJ inverter . The rest of the circuit board control output ac voltage and overload current  and  dc overvoltage of battery and dc undervoltage of battery and auto shutdown if overtemperature .   The  ASL9.0  PJ  transformer is what I  connect to the EG 8010 from SUNYIMA .   For 200 dollars include the inverter  board and wires and instruction and diagram  .   Most PJ   48v inverter transformer is  36vac primary  so order the 60v dc model  according  to  SUNYIMA .           I  only run my EG 8010  to 100 watts and stop .    I  like to know how he get  9 kw  as people with working EG 8010 inverter do not talk .     The oz inverter forum say the EG 8010 op amp 339  which  shut down the inverter to protect the inverter  will blow up the FETs cause by the voltage spike  back emf  during shut down .    I diable the op amp 339 on my  EG 8010  and now no voltage spike during shut down but  have  only over temperature protection .       

I  do not think any PJ inverter can do 9kw with the  rev 11.3 control board as the red light alarm will shut it down .    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/9/2022 at 1:17 PM, dickson said:

The daughter board  is the EG 8010 with the  red light and cost about 13 dollars

Thanks, I may grab one.  It will be interesting to use to learn more without being stressed I am going to burn up something that I like.  Sounds like its more of an experimental type kit item.  Well I may wait a bit to see what stuff Sean sells for other fun projects. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 It will be interesting to use to learn more without being stressed I am going to burn up something that I like.  Sounds like its more of an experimental type kit item.  Well I may wait a bit to see what stuff Sean sells for other fun projects. 

Ali express  sell  the EG 8010 alone  and  inverter board with EG 8010 and mosfets  ready for any powerjack transformer .    For a 12vdc inverter the transformer  has a 8 vac primary .  For a 24vdc DIY inverter then a transformer has  16vac primary  and a  48vdc inverter the transformer  primary is  28vc that powerjack do not make .   my ASL9,0 transformer has 36vac primary  then my  inverter is a 60vdc  system .   The output ac voltage is 60 hz single phase 120 ac or  240vac  only  and  no split phase .  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dickson said:

 It will be interesting to use to learn more without being stressed I am going to burn up something that I like.  Sounds like its more of an experimental type kit item.  Well I may wait a bit to see what stuff Sean sells for other fun projects. 

Ali express  sell  the EG 8010 alone  and  inverter board with EG 8010 and mosfets  ready for any powerjack transformer .    For a 12vdc inverter the transformer  has a 8 vac primary .  For a 24vdc DIY inverter then a transformer has  16vac primary  and a  48vdc inverter the transformer  primary is  28vc that powerjack do not make .   my ASL9,0 transformer has 36vac primary  then my  inverter is a 60vdc  system .   The output ac voltage is 60 hz single phase 120 ac or  240vac  only  and  no split phase .  

In the photo of your EG 8010 board there is a copper 40A power connector to the pcb board. It looks like fits into a round terminal hole. I need something like that for my supercapacitor board. What is it called?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dickson said:

For a 12vdc inverter the transformer  has a 8 vac primary .  For a 24vdc DIY inverter then a transformer has  16vac primary  and a  48vdc inverter the transformer  primary is  28vc that powerjack do not make .   my ASL9,0 transformer has 36vac primary  then my  inverter is a 60vdc  system .

Umm...your numbers aren't scaling correct.  If 48vDC = 28vAC primary, that means that the following have to be true:

  1. 60vDC -> 35vAC primary
  2. 48vDC -> 28vAC primary
  3. 24vDC -> 14vAC primary
  4. 12vDC -> 7vAC primary

I believe the EG8010 cannot go past 100% "throttle" (i.e. it is not able to distort the sine wave), thus necessitating the considerably lower transformer voltage spec for head room.

 

4 hours ago, dickson said:

The output ac voltage is 60 hz single phase 120 ac or  240vac  only  and  no split phase .  

Of course you can do split phase with an EG8010 board.......there's no magic going on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Umm...your numbers aren't scaling correct.  If 48vDC = 28vAC primary, that means

I  know  the  Ali express  number for transformer  primary  ac  do not  seem right  for  48vdc battery .     The  EG 8010 inverter board  seem to be all single  phase  on Ali express .     The  EG 8010  will need to be  modify  to be usefull .    The  OZ inverter use a EG 8010  with a lot of modification  to run 6 kw .     Running 9kw  seem impossible but the DIYer   never show detail  of modification .     

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, dickson said:

I  know  the  Ali express  number for transformer  primary  ac  do not  seem right  for  48vdc battery .

It probably IS right, as like I said above, I do not think the EG8010 is able to flatten out the sine wave (">100% throttle").  As a result, under load, the output voltage will fall if the tranny spec is too high.

 

9 hours ago, dickson said:

The  EG 8010 inverter board  seem to be all single  phase  on Ali express .

Does not make a hill of beans' worth of difference.  If you have a split-phase transformer, it'll work just the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As a result, under load, the output voltage will fall if the tranny spec is too high.

The  output voltage of the  ASL9.0  with the EG 8010 board the max  is 189 vac  so I set it at  130vac  to run  a light bulb .       The neutral can be use to make split phase  but no  purpose  to  make 65 vac .    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, dickson said:

As a result, under load, the output voltage will fall if the tranny spec is too high.

The  output voltage of the  ASL9.0  with the EG 8010 board the max  is 189 vac  so I set it at  130vac  to run  a light bulb .       The neutral can be use to make split phase  but no  purpose  to  make 65 vac .    

If the ASL9 is 36v -> 230v (typical PJ spec), the ratio is (230 / 36) = 6.388.  Couple that with a 48v battery input = max non-saturated output of (48 / 1.414) = 33.9vAC into your transformer.  Thusly 33.9vAC * 6.388 (ratio) = 216.58v max expected output with zero losses.

...assuming all my guesses are correct, then the EG8010 can't even reach 100% sine "throttle."  But I'm making a lot of assumptions here.

 

You can of course remove a few turns of the primary winding on your ASL9.  Depending on the winding spec, each "turn" removed will drop from 1.0-1.5v of the primary voltage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

assuming all my guesses are correct, then the EG8010 can't even reach 100% sine "throttle.

You are not  guessing  as that is  what  the EG 8010 is doing  so  it is a expensive  light bulb circuit  .    IT is very difficult  to  find a useful  DIY for the EG 8010  on youtube .    The oz inverter has bigger cap  and  better mosfets  and  transformer  spec is  not Powerjack spec  and  protection circuit  is  still a problem .  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Split phase is single phase. Just two different pairs of potentials, sharing the center.
So long as your tranny can multiply the voltage to 240, and has a center tap (or 2 equal secondaries), you can use it for North American split phase.

If the EG8010 has a software limit of 189, just make it regulate against a single 120v leg. Like a lot of powerjacks. Second leg go directly to output terminal.

Not sure the implications of regulating off only one leg. Probably wont be as sensitive to voltage drop on the second leg... I'm sure Sid knows the ugly details on this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the EG8010 has a software limit of 189

The EG 8010 inverter board I  bought is  50 dolars on Ali express .  My Powerjack  transformer primary do not match  so is limit to 189 vac .    Ali express  do sell a matching  transformer for EG 8010  and cost 600 dollars .     Sean has a lot of old Powerjack  but PJ in China no longer make repair parts  .   I find that  using a EG 8010  inverter board will not  make old Powerjack  useful .     IT will be very difficult to repair  old PJ  inverter .    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, NotMario said:

If the EG8010 has a software limit of 189

Doubt it.  The voltage feedback input requires a voltage divider--so in theory, it could be used to regulate almost any output voltage.  The issue is if the SPWM output cannot flat-top/distort the AC wave if there's insufficient headroom.  On top of that, it might not even take the sine to full 100% max PWM throttle anyway--further reducing headroom.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 The voltage feedback input requires a voltage divider--so in theory, it could be used to regulate almost any output voltage.  

The inverter board has output voltage  adjustment .     IF output ac is adjusted too high it shut down with red light  blinking .    IF output  ac is  adjusted  too low it  shut down also   so  now at  130 vac it works  to run a light bulb .  The battery is 55 vdc input .     The inverter board  has over voltage and under voltage  protection adjustment .    IF the  adjustment  from the factory is out of range then the  EG 8010  will not start  and may blow the FETs  if  it shutdown  automatically under load .    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dickson said:

If the EG8010 has a software limit of 189

The EG 8010 inverter board I  bought is  50 dolars on Ali express .  My Powerjack  transformer primary do not match  so is limit to 189 vac .    Ali express  do sell a matching  transformer for EG 8010  and cost 600 dollars .     Sean has a lot of old Powerjack  but PJ in China no longer make repair parts  .   I find that  using a EG 8010  inverter board will not  make old Powerjack  useful .     IT will be very difficult to repair  old PJ  inverter .    

This EG8010 discussion is interesting, but perhaps you can buy a parts inverter from Sean and repair your old PJ? I would like one of the working 24V PJ's, but all depends on $. Lots of bills come due for me right now.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Doubt it.  The voltage feedback input requires a voltage divider--so in theory, it could be used to regulate almost any output voltage.  The issue is if the SPWM output cannot flat-top/distort the AC wave if there's insufficient headroom.  On top of that, it might not even take the sine to full 100% max PWM throttle anyway--further reducing headroom.

I figured that was the case. So he just needs to adjust his tranny to get enough voltage.

Unwinding the primary a few turns would clearly do it, but with less copper, what side effect is produced?

2 hours ago, RobertM said:

This EG8010 discussion is interesting, but perhaps you can buy a parts inverter from Sean and repair your old PJ? I would like one of the working 24V PJ's, but all depends on $. Lots of bills come due for me right now.

I haven't heard anything more about this. Sean is nigh impossible to reach sometimes. 😕

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NotMario said:

I figured that was the case. So he just needs to adjust his tranny to get enough voltage.

Unwinding the primary a few turns would clearly do it, but with less copper, what side effect is produced?

I haven't heard anything more about this. Sean is nigh impossible to reach sometimes. 😕

At some point, this week, there will be a link on genetrysolar.com with info on the available  PJ inverters that he's tested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

 the egs002 little board is looking for around 3 volts from the voltage divider on the big board   so as sid said it can be made to reg almost any voltage  with in the specs of the parts like caps fet ......     if you can do so in a safe way  "know what you are doing" you can plug one 120 volt leg  of your tranny into a wall outlet 

after plugging in see what the low side voltage is 

if it is 36 volts you will need to unwind a few turns 

then plug it in again and check the low side again if still over 28 volts you repeat 

untill you get 28 volts   if under 28 you add turns to low side check it each time

do this until you get 28 volts 

from every thing i know any esg002 inverter over 2k needs to have totem poll drivers 

you will also need a realy good choke 

my buddy has been using one of my home made 10k egs002 inverters for a long time now every day off grid

they can be good inverters but what is the use now that GS is making much better inverters?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

from every thing i know any esg002 inverter over 2k needs to have totem poll drivers 

you will also need a realy good choke 

my buddy has been using one of my home made 10k egs002 inverters for a long time now every day off grid

YES  need totem poll  LF driver  and a big choke .      10 kw seem to be the limit for DIY inverter and Powerjack inverter .       I stop  using the EG 8010  with the ASL 9.0 transformer   and is using the rev 11.3 PJ  control board now  with the transformer  primary  to 32vac  .    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i never liked the power jack control boards one bank of fets gets hotter than the other 3

i had a buddy that reprogram a pj control board for me and it ran great he may have done other stuff to it also not sure 

but it truly ran great after he done what ever he done 

the egs002 can be made into a good inverter but it is plain jane and i have never ran one at over 4or5k for hours at a time 

i have ran one with big load for short times here and there 

i would not trust them for every day use of over 6k i have had no prob but people way smarter than me have said over and over 6or7k is tops for the egs002

PJ and esg002 suck when compared to even just the GS wifi board

ITS DAY AND NIGHT!!

GS is no more in cost when all is said and done either  

Have you seen all the things a GS wifi board can do?

Its not just a screen with wifi its all the brains and drives the fets at 8amps! 

This makes sure they turn all the way on fast so less heat and losses 

It was a crazy killer deal when they was selling the wifi by its self for 3 or 350 bucks

To anyone who had a junk pj could buy the GS wifi  install it and turn a junk into a very nice inverter 

Of course you have to no how or know some one that can install it for you

The pj fet board is not the prob with pj inverters or at lest the pj i had 

They work great with GS wifi i have had one since before the first wifi was sold 

ITS still running strong!

The wifi does not make the tranny bigger

But you turn a junk pj into a very nice inverter with tons and tons of feachers like wifi that can do what ever wattage the pj tanny is capable of

I quit messing with esg002 and pj when i got a GS   

All in cost is about the same from home made esg002 or buying a GS it is a no brainer lol 

If i had a large pj inverter i would be trying to get my hands on a GS wifi board to put in it

That is my two cents on it all!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...