Lyabe 8000 watt split phase 24v-220v inverter. Low amperage output.

[workaholic53]

I bought this Lyabe 8000 watt split phase inverter and when it didn't put out more than 750 watts without shutting down, I suspected that there were settings wrong in the inverter.  I opened it up and to my surprise all the guts were Power Jack.  It has an asf-7 transformer, a 4 cap main board and it looks as if it should be more powerful than the pitiful 750 watts that is its limit.  I noticed that there are DIP switches on the main board and I wonder what the appropriate settings for them should be?  Other than the low power the inverter works flawlessly.

[dickson]

I bought this Lyabe 8000 watt split phase inverter and when it didn't put out more than 750 watts without shutting down

IF brought from Amazon then ask for money back .     

[Sid Genetry Solar]

8 hours ago, workaholic53 said:

I opened it up and to my surprise all the guts were Power Jack. 

PJ does make inverters for other brands, including U-Power.  First time we've heard of Lyabe...but it's obviously the same!

 

8 hours ago, workaholic53 said:

I noticed that there are DIP switches on the main board and I wonder what the appropriate settings for them should be?

The more of them turned on, the more power it will do before shutting down; note that this limit will only be on the L1-N (and L1-L2) circuit.  L2-N does not have any current sense.  FWIW there is no "right" setting...and remember, it's a PJ, so consider yourself fortunate if you get 2kw continuous out of it.

 

8 hours ago, workaholic53 said:

It has an asf-7 transformer

Never heard of an ASF-7; care to share a picture?

[workaholic53]

Yup, and I read the number wrong, it is a LF-ASL4 transformer.

 

[workaholic53]

I realize that PJ is quite "generous" with their specs. in their favor, but I intend to use this to power a refrigerator and small stuff in outages.  The rub was it wouldn't power a refrigerator.  I held on to this for too long to get a return.  Besides, I have had horrible luck with getting satisfaction from returns from any supplier.  So I will keep this and make a light duty backup if nothing else.  Thanks for the info on the switches, the 2 in the front and the 2 in the back were all that were on.

Edited September 27, 2022 by workaholic53

[Sid Genetry Solar]

Try popping a few of said switches on...see if it'll run your basic loads.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

...or put your 'fridge on the L2-N circuit, you'll bypass the current sensor altogether 😉.

[workaholic53]

I suspect that I should have the fire extinguisher "at the ready" lol.  What is amazing is that there is so much substance in that box, it seems a shame that they can't seem to get it right.  Ahh yes the current sensor, that is another issue altogether.  Power factor reads .911 with 45 watts on the circuit....  I think that I will hold off on the load test until I am not hooked to the computer, wifi and area fan.  Thanks for your help and concern.  It is a rare thing these days. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by workaholic53

[workaholic53]

Well the inverter survived the test though it didn't power the load (old microwave about 1100W).  It just cycled on and off without actually starting the microwave.  It appears I have a very heavy 800W inverter.  Strange though, it didn't throw any alarms of shut the inverter down?

Edited September 27, 2022 by workaholic53

[Sid Genetry Solar]

Can you try it on the L2-N circuit?

Have to say...these reports I've been hearing about the latest PJ boards are rather mystifying to me...

[NotMario]

Yeah... that's some kind of regulator problem. I have the same issue with my U-Power. It doesn't like sudden heavy loads when near idle load.

Make the load a persistent load that will keep retrying to start when the power comes back up. I bet the inverter will keep power cycling until an "output unstable" alarm occurs.

On the other hand, put a ~500W resistive load on it, then try the microwave. I suspect it might get that microwave going, even though you've increased the total load by 500W.

Edited September 27, 2022 by NotMario

[RobertM]

It looks like an PJ older model. It's not an AMG design, has a display, has 4 caps and the ASL4 transformer.

Very different from my PJ manufactured in December of 2021. The date on this Lyabe branded transformer is also 12/21.

Edited September 28, 2022 by RobertM

[dickson]

On the other hand, put a ~500W resistive load on it, then try the microwave. I suspect it might get that microwave going, even though you've increased the total load by 500W.

My  4 ton  heat pump will  start and run IF I run a 3/4 hp  waterpump  for 5 minutes  first ,   This is with the ASL9.0  PJ transformer just to test  .   I do not know why it works doing  this .       My   3 years old 8kw PJ  with  ASL4.0  transformer  has  a different  mainboard  and  original  rev 10.3 control board .     I  have a rev 11.3 control board  and IT will  not  work  as the connector  is wired different  .     I  am sure the FETs will blow up if I try .       PJ   manufactured   inverter now is mess up  and almost impossible to fix .  

[RobertM]

3 minutes ago, dickson said:

 

My  4 ton  heat pump will  start and run IF I run a 3/4 hp  waterpump  for 5 minutes  first 

Yes, I've learned this trick with my PJ. I've been running it quite a bit. 

[Sid Genetry Solar]

18 hours ago, workaholic53 said:

Well the inverter survived the test though it didn't power the load (old microwave about 1100W).  It just cycled on and off without actually starting the microwave.  It appears I have a very heavy 800W inverter.  Strange though, it didn't throw any alarms of shut the inverter down?

I am wondering if the problem is actually something else...

Do you have a 'scope?

If not, try putting a DMM (digital multimeter) in AC Volts, and measuring the voltage on the heatsinks where the transformer connects (at no load).  If it's 18vAC+, that's almost certainly the issue.

 

What I'm thinking: the if PJ is back to using a high transformer primary voltage, the inverter will be well into square waves (especially with lower battery voltages & high output voltages).  If you put a heavy load on the inverter, the total voltage loss (battery voltage sag, transformer resistance, etc.) will result in the inverter throttling up significantly farther--but as a result of the transformer ratio, the inverter's "throttle" will actually "roll over" and back to zero again!  It'll throttle it all the way back up, trying to reach the desired output voltage...and "fall off the cliff" again, back to zero.  Over and over.

This would cause a "pulsing" output ~2x sec (IIRC), and yes, it would not cause a shutdown.

 

The easiest solution to that would be to actually remove 2-3 turns of wire from the primary winding of the transformer (which is the outside winding, making it not too difficult), ideally reducing the primary voltage closer to 16vAC.  This would give you more headroom for higher loads--and of course, also make it easier to blow the inverter up.  YMMV 🤪🤯🤣

[workaholic53]

Hmm, will ck the voltage as I have a fluke digital meter.  It would seem that rather than risk appliances and the like, I will absorb the loss of the cost of the inverter and try another brand.

[NotMario]

2 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

This would cause a "pulsing" output ~2x sec (IIRC), and yes, it would not cause a shutdown.

 

The easiest solution to that would be to actually remove 2-3 turns of wire from the primary winding of the transformer (which is the outside winding, making it not too difficult), ideally reducing the primary voltage closer to 16vAC.  This would give you more headroom for higher loads--and of course, also make it easier to blow the inverter up.  YMMV 🤪🤯🤣

2 pulses per second sounds about right to me... Though it does cause a shutdown after about 5 seconds of continuous cycling, for "output unstable". (you don't say...)

You're saying i should open up that bad-boy and unwind a couple turns from the tranny primary windings? Hey, if it's that simple, i will jump for joy and probably put it in my camper...

[workaholic53]

Checked across the separated heatsinks and got 15.3 VAC.  Just for giggles plugged in a light load (about 145W) and tested it and got 16.1 VAC.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

1 hour ago, workaholic53 said:

Checked across the separated heatsinks and got 15.3 VAC.  Just for giggles plugged in a light load (about 145W) and tested it and got 16.1 VAC.

Interesting, that's not bad at all (actually almost GS spec, hehe, gotta love it!)  They used to do 36vAC (for 48v) which would be 18vAC for 24v...

Unfortunately without a "window" into the inverter (GS WiFi board, etc.) it's pretty well impossible to figure out exactly what's going on.  Quite akin to trying to fix a modern car without a OBD-2 scanner!

 

1 hour ago, NotMario said:

You're saying i should open up that bad-boy and unwind a couple turns from the tranny primary windings? Hey, if it's that simple, i will jump for joy and probably put it in my camper...

Ha, maybe not quite.  If it's down at 15vAC or so at no load, I wouldn't recommend reducing the tranny voltage spec too much.  Reduce it too far, and the FETs will blow out (been there, done THAT!) 

 

However...it would not be impossible for their voltage feedback circuit to be going wonky under load.  If someone having one of these troubled inverters has a 'scope or a fast meter...I would be curious if the AC output voltage (or the transformer primary voltage for that matter!) is exceeding 18-20vAC when it's "pulsing".  Because if the inverter gets false output readings, it'll "loop" the throttle regardless of the transformer primary ratio--and for that matter, can be very easily replicated by disconnecting the transformer altogether.  You're guaranteed a loop-loop in that case!

(FWIW a GS inverter will give an "Xformer Volt" error if the throttle reaches 100% and there's no detected AC output voltage--it won't "loop".)

[workaholic53]

What is weird about this is that the readout on top of the inverter with 96W and 1.24A shows a .664 power factor.  It would seem that the machine is sensing that it is delivering 2/3 of its power at 1.24A which would be in line with its output? 

[Sid Genetry Solar]

22 minutes ago, workaholic53 said:

What is weird about this is that the readout on top of the inverter with 96W and 1.24A shows a .664 power factor.  It would seem that the machine is sensing that it is delivering 2/3 of its power at 1.24A which would be in line with its output? 

The readout LCD has absolutely no connection to the processor on the main board--so they don't talk.  And the overload sensor on the inverter processor itself has no connection to the LCD--there's 2 separate AC power sensors.  One set for the LCD, and another set for the main board.

[workaholic53]

But they both sense.  I am now wondering if the problem here is simply a QC issue with the soldering on the control board.  Perhaps an errant tail when soldering to a trace and affecting the output upstream from where the power is sensed.  A low voltage error that is passed through the rest of the board.  Just a thought.  This is an interesting thought problem though.  I wonder whether I am going to run out of patience with it and throw it in the corner with the old HF PJ 5K inverter I bought years ago and had a similar low voltage limit problem with.  I swore at that time I would never buy another PJ again, but my miserly ways tripped me up again.  Lol.  The other anomaly here is that the fan comes on after about the first 2-3 hrs of use and stays on for about 3 min and thereafter about every hour even with minimal load?

Edited September 28, 2022 by workaholic53

[dickson]

I swore at that time I would never buy another PJ again, but my miserly ways tripped me up again.  Lol. 

LAYABE   is a mess up  PJ   that no one know what is inside  ?       Only  control board available is rev 11.3  and the connector is mess up  to the mainboard .    

[NotMario]

Finally got out the ol' U-Power and opened it up to take a look...

It's actually quite an impressive build... well laid out and organized... for the most part...
Looks like it was manufactured in Dec of 2021. QC "tested" it at 5000W...

The mainboard looks almost identical to the one in a GS. Only 3 x 18000uf 50v caps... so some differences... Looks trivial to solder in a 4th cap...
The tranny is particularly interesting. Says it's a LF-ASL3-AMG4-PSW and spec'd for 16v to 115/230v. It's very similar in size and weight to the one in my GS.

I could certainly see how PJ might be "learning" from some of the GS design choices...

Edited September 29, 2022 by NotMario

[Sid Genetry Solar]

5 minutes ago, NotMario said:

The mainboard looks almost identical to the one in a GS. Only 3 x 18000uf 50v caps... so some differences... Looks trivial to solder in a 4th cap...

...because the GS inverters thus far have utilized a PJ mainboard.  It worked fine at 6kw in our tests, and "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

However, the next revision of GS inverters utilize a completely in-house design mainboard/MOS boards...so there will be absolutely zero "PJ" parts in GS inverters going forward.

 

6 minutes ago, NotMario said:

Says it's a LF-ASL3-AMG4-PSW and spec'd for 16v to 115/230v. It's very similar in size and weight to the one in my GS.

GS ones use a larger core with more wire.  But yes, I'm pretty sure they've started copying GS transformer voltage specs...