dickson Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Sean ask on youtube about review on GS inverter . A 10uf capacitor on L2 of my 15kw (actually 20kw ) PJ inverter help start and run my washing machine . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertM Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 A capacitor on the Power Jack L1 to help with starting motors? Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 A capacitor on the Power Jack L1 PJ inverter already has a 4 uF capacitor on L1 . Need to put one 10 uF 450 vAC on L2 to N . The 10 uF make the sine wave look good on a oscilloscope in one of Sean youtube long time ago . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 2 hours ago, RobertM said: A capacitor on the Power Jack L1 to help with starting motors? Interesting. Not to start motors, but to make sensitive dishwashers/washing machines stop complaining and do their job. PJ generally doesn't have any filtration on the L2-N circuit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 Youtube today comment say 40kw is the FETs max . The GS 12kw will do 13 kw at 75 degree F so the surge max I think is 39kw ? The screen shot show the GS12 kw easily do 12170 watts at 86 degree in the basement . The fan is 101 percent so it will probably max out at 100 degree F doing 13kw contiunous . IT will not do 12kw at 120 degree F for sure and will not try . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 35 minutes ago, dickson said: The fan is 101 percent That's not possible. Fans can only register 0-100%. The big number is the load percentage, in the case of the screenshot above, that's 101% load because (12,170W used / 12,000 rated) = 1.014 = 101.4% The little number in the bottom right corner of the screen is the highest temperature measured inside the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 The little number in the bottom right corner of the screen is the highest temperature measured inside the chassis. Thank you as the temp is 139 degree F at 12170 watts . The inverter should do 13000 watts at 100 degree F easy as the fan is not running at max speed yet . IF the surge is set at 33kw then all 4 ton heat pump should start easy . I like to see the transformer temp on the LCD instead of the 101 load percent . I watch the PJ transformer temperature with a external temperature sensor and meter on the transformer and manually shut down at 170 degree F . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaticsLive Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 If find a reason to upgrade the real can style AC power filters are actually reasonable in price and much safer then putting a regular cap on there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, AquaticsLive said: If find a reason to upgrade the real can style AC power filters are actually reasonable in price and much safer then putting a regular cap on there. As opposed to a CBB-style polyester cap that's rated for 250vAC? I've never heard of a polyester cap going bad...but I know that HVAC techs replace the can-style oil-filled AC-rated synchronous motor caps on a regular basis. (Yes, the oil-filled caps can handle significantly higher amperage...and a polyester cap on the AC line won't be running extremely high amperage, but still...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaticsLive Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: As opposed to a CBB-style polyester cap that's rated for 250vAC? Power filter caps used for line filtering on sensitive equipment are bigger square cans, they are easy to spot. They also have a few other components inside the can to arrest EMI and other noise. Quite a bit different than what is used in HVAC. Well different use case and the safety features on them are well worth it and remove those weird harmonics that happen on conveyors system that will make the PLC freak out intermittently. My guess is that they would work great for people with sensitive appliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaticsLive Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Example of a Shaffner line filter there are lots of different ones out there just grabbed one datasheet. LINK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, AquaticsLive said: Example of a Shaffner line filter there are lots of different ones out there just grabbed one datasheet. LINK Ah, aha, yes, those things. Those serve a completely different purpose than the CBB polyester 10uF caps referenced here (and used in GS inverters). The line filters work to filter out small noise, etc., etc., but they're far too small to touch the level of noise resulting from an unfiltered SPWM-driven transformer. The biggest ones only have a 1uF main line filter cap, which is far too small to help. (How big is the noise on an unfiltered transformer, you might ask? Easily 10v ripple--that's quite beyond the scale of an EMI line filter.) The 4.7uF or 10uF polyester AC filter caps actually work in tandem with the ferrite chokes on the transformer primary to create some sort of weird low-pass filter. It's actually kinda rocket science in that the size of the filter cap is somewhat determined by the physical size of the main transformer. Too small, you'll get a very dirty output. Too big, and you'll significantly increase no-load current (and get a loud hum from the transformer. At least that's my experience on a GS inverter--the PJ inverters run the transformer so noisy that you might not notice the difference.) If the AC output cap size is in the ballpark, it will actually significantly REDUCE the no-load current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AquaticsLive Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: Ah, aha, yes, those things. Yeah check them out and try a decent sized one. The much bigger ones get pricey but you don't need one of those big ones. I was just thinking the the smaller type like the 30A one would work for a washing machine. The bigger ones have isolation transformers which I don't think the power is that bad to need all the extra pieces, but guessing there is a middle ground that would be sufficient. Edited July 28, 2022 by AquaticsLive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickson Posted July 29, 2022 Author Share Posted July 29, 2022 The big number is the load percentage, in the case of the screenshot above, that's 101% load because (12,170W used / 12,000 rated) = 1.014 = 101.4% Look like the GS12kw can do 13000 watts at 100 degree F . The temperature is only 150 degree F inside the case . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 The cap across the output creates a LF tank circuit Done correctly the transformer could be driven with a simple PWM and still output a sign wave ( I used to repair 400hz ones) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted August 3, 2022 Share Posted August 3, 2022 Note that done correctly the choke should be between the transformer and the output terminals The cap should be across the transformer output before the choke so the load doesn't change the resonance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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