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PowerJack 48-volt 16000Watt AMG version LF SP PSW inverter


pilgrimvalley
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the PowerJack聽48-volt 16000Watt LF SP PSW inverter AMG version is in a smaller form factor than the 26000W one by far...!!!! (my back says thank you)

the YouTube guy superobkar got about 6000 watts out of a 12000W PowerJack .... wonder what the PowerJack 16000W inverter can do.... but the next video was not so good of his testing the surge ability. depends on the type of load....聽

https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperRobkar

pictures attached below.... it takes 12 10mm head screws to remove the top... all was fitted well. sharp edges but a lot more manageable weight also...(plus 1st you must remove an additional 7 10mm head screws to remove the protective covers from the front and back). so 19 bolt head screws removed to see the inside...

it has a 2 wire connection between the control board and the negative battery bus bar inside the case??? what does that do??? measure the current flow for control or heat??? hmmm?this is right next to the LF driver board??? had not noticed this connection in the other inverters I peaked inside of but it may have been there also???

it has an 11.1 board, no label on transformer so that is a mystery as to the so-called ASL transformer core size??? should have got the ruler out to measure it but forgot and time got away from me again...

they now are selling this version in a 2 box SS module type 16000 watt one...they keep changing the style...

this one has 6 feet on the bottom of the case like a stereo component. It is made to sit on a shelf, not wall mountable.

it comes prewired to be 120 volt but the jumpers can be moved to get 240 volt. on the outside of the case....

there is no AC charging in this model, I did not want it to hook to the grid in any form... I have a 1800's brick building in need of electricity in town, but the electric company (government subsidized monopoly ya know) removed the overhead line so they can go get screwed, I will do it off grid 馃ぃ馃槑..... I may make it into an office /solar resale shop or something...

there are no meters what so ever but it has two of the new small round 7 prong plug to allow you to connect to Thor's Note Book if one wanted to do that.

it has 2 of the red filter caps on the control board...( I think that is what that part is called...)

I can not see the dc-dc converter board underneath so can not tell anything about the big electrolytic capacitor size without dismantling it further which I am not going to do. 12 mosfets on each side so 24 mosfets...could not read the numbers.

mosfet means >>>>

The metal鈥搊xide鈥搒emiconductor field-effect transistor, also known as the metal鈥搊xide鈥搒ilicon transistor, is a type of insulated-gate field-effect transistor that is fabricated by the controlled oxidation of a semiconductor, typically silicon.Wikipedia

I took pictures in the night when all people were sleeping with the cell phone and flashlight...go figure but the little mischievous daughter is autistic and likes to grab things very quickly and hide them.....

Sounds like the shipping rates are going up with the pandemic lockdowns in China....this one came via the slow boat ride about 52 days I think via eBay auction for $402.31 including shipping and tax to my off grid site in South Dakota. also included >>>>聽 the old typical manual with the 3 girls on the front which does not correspond to this inverter in hardly any way....getting use to that....

more later, hope the sun comes out... the rain and cold is miserable to do farm chores in (especially hate the wind)...馃槈馃槧

have a great day all!聽

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2 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

it has a 2 wire connection between the control board and the negative battery bus bar inside the case??? what does that do??? measure the current flow for control or heat??? hmmm?this is right next to the LF driver board??? had not noticed this connection in the other inverters I peaked inside of but it may have been there also???

It would make sense that this could be used for something useful--but no, it is not.聽 This input goes to a "trip" circuit that cuts the FET drives (via the CD4011).聽 As though the CPU doesn't have a "FAULT" input that will do the exact same thing and ALSO notify the processor of the supposed issue...

It is not possible to measure the battery current flow on a PJ inverter.聽 The design is far too fluid and unspecified.

2 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

the YouTube guy superobkar got about 6000 watts out of a 12000W PowerJack .... wonder what the PowerJack 16000W inverter can do.... but the next video was not so good of his testing the surge ability. depends on the type of load....聽

Yeah, but remember: "getting 6kw" for a few seconds, is NOT "continuous output of 6kw."聽 I will be surprised if that inverter can sustain more than 3kw continuously TOTAL (not per phase).

Watched the surge testing video, and the ONLY thing that's fast enough to trigger like that would be the signal from the 2-wire connection that you noticed above.聽 The output amperage sensor has a multi-second delay on it (AND has no auto-restart), so it would not be triggering this.

Another possibility would be that the battery bank/internal resistance is too high--and the inrush surge is resetting the CPU.聽 Standard power-up sequence flashes the "alarm" light--and it is behaving a lot like a system reset.

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3 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Yeah, but remember: "getting 6kw" for a few seconds, is NOT "continuous output of 6kw."聽 I will be surprised if that inverter can sustain more than 3kw continuously TOTAL (not per phase).

My U-Power gets 5-6KW for at least 15 minutes. (In 40f ambient)

It's weird how inconsistent the performance of these things are. If they'd just be more consistent about their product, they'd be so much better off! Even if that's 25% performance - at least it's consistent.

By the way, those internals of that 16K look EXACTLY the same as my 12K... except that mine has AC Input. Same form-factor and everything. Even the output breakers are the same CHiNT breakers. (which i love over the button breakers...)

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11 minutes ago, NotMario said:

Even the output breakers are the same CHiNT breakers. (which i love over the button breakers...)

Only problem with said breakers?聽 They're really hard to mount!

Button breakers are more fragile, however...but they're easy to mount.聽 I wish I could find an integrated breaker-and-outlet combo, that'd be really nice.聽 Haven't found one though.

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yes I believe this version if I recall correctly was rated as 8000watts continuous even if they advertise a surge of 16000. this 16000watt PSW sP LF AMG version inverter it does6000or more without issues it will be a useful for some loads. i won't do a torture test to it....no reason to kill it off too fast....but they are definitely changing things...hopefully for the better...

like one commenter said the 16000 is more like a model number than a surge number...but that was in reference to an older version PowerJack he was referring too, so not exactly the same one....

wonder if they have electrical engineers working to improve their inverter designs?

Question???? of the 2 small blue potentiometers located on the outside of the case .....what do the lazer cut outs stand for???

B聽 >>>> OV AD ????; and C聽 >>>> IV AD ???

the A one is a Hz button and they ship small button covers聽 in a separate small ziplock for it; but no need to change the HZ.

this morning started charging the last 4 LIfePO4 cells with the Riden 6018 charger via the other Powerjack inverter off-grid so soon may assemble the next 32 cell 28KWh battery. I parallel 4 LiFePO4 cells at a time to top balance before assembly....into the larger battery 373 pounds or so...馃槑馃

cheers all and have a great day!

thanks for your replies! ch

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the CHNT breakers are a very simple sturdy mount in聽 the front of the case...I think they sell for about 3-4 dollars on alibaba/aliexpress....a metal bar and two bolts holds them into the lazer cut out.

I like the breakers vs glass fuses...of the other PowerJack inverters I have...although I have never had to replace a fuse yet>>> knock on wood!馃槑

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52 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

wonder if they have electrical engineers working to improve their inverter designs?

No.聽 It's frankly astonishing how little most Chinese factories actually know about the electronics they manufacture and sell.聽 More often than not, a Chinese factory copies a design from another company (that presumably did their research)--but just because a Chinese factory sells something should not be taken to mean that they understand how it actually works.

53 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

but they are definitely changing things...hopefully for the better...

Can't say this is the case.聽 Reducing manufacturing cost is THE most important aspect of basically every change with PJ inverters--and as the value of the USD continues to fall due to significantly increased inflation, they have to reduce costs further to avoid the appearance of "raising prices."聽 And...it is extremely difficult to "reduce cost" without also "reducing functionality."

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I often wonder about PJ and their continual trial and error tinkering with component values to bodge the inverter control rather than simple change of a few values in the code to achieve the same.聽 Sure someone simply fiddling with resistors isn't going to require a great deal of skill, but neither would tweaking values in the firmware, so no real change in costs there.聽 The latter would mean the continual change to production processes would go away, and that is where they'd make actual savings, IMO.

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Can't say this is the case.聽 Reducing manufacturing cost is THE most important aspect of basically every change with PJ inverters--and as the value of the USD continues to fall due to significantly increased inflation, they have to reduce costs further to avoid the appearance of "raising prices."聽 And...it is extremely difficult to "reduce cost" without also "reducing functionality."

I聽 hope your new GS 12kw聽 do not get inflated to the price of the newest PJ聽 10kw inverter on ebay .聽 聽

Screenshot (1004928).png

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2 hours ago, TheButcher said:

I often wonder about PJ and their continual trial and error tinkering with component values to bodge the inverter control rather than simple change of a few values in the code to achieve the same.聽 Sure someone simply fiddling with resistors isn't going to require a great deal of skill, but neither would tweaking values in the firmware, so no real change in costs there.聽 The latter would mean the continual change to production processes would go away, and that is where they'd make actual savings, IMO.

Very logical reasoning.聽 The only issue is if they also don't have a clue how the code works.

MOST of the PCB tweaks/additions are a direct result of trying to work around a problem that could very easily be addressed with a fairly simple firmware adjustment.聽 As a matter of fact, the PCB design (with all of the "fixes") makes it very difficult to adjust the firmware...

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3 hours ago, TheButcher said:

I often wonder about PJ and their continual trial and error tinkering with component values to bodge the inverter control rather than simple change of a few values in the code to achieve the same.聽 Sure someone simply fiddling with resistors isn't going to require a great deal of skill, but neither would tweaking values in the firmware, so no real change in costs there.聽 The latter would mean the continual change to production processes would go away, and that is where they'd make actual savings, IMO.

yes unless someone is reverse engineering their code and how they seek to change their transistors and components it would be hard to say how many engineers they have on staff to make or copy or improve their products... i am still learning so forgive my lack of details...

I do not know anyone who has been to their (PowerJack) Chinese factory in Taiwan or wherever it may be... some things they source from the same copycat suppliers...

if you watched what happened to the computer chips and memory over the last 30 years the computer chip increased in speed every 6 months and computer parts got super cheap and the computer that cost me 3500 dollars became worth less than 100 dollar within 5 years...I have tons of cds and dvds, but i now have the faster ssd drives as they are more reliable then the older multi-platter hard drives... today i use usb drives that hold GB of data vs the 1st computer i built from scratch had a enormous 850MB hard drive back in 1989 or so.... the usb drives can be bought for 5 dollars for 32GB... so to say cheaper and newer is not better who is to say...

a copper wound transformer around a iron core would produce better than the cheaper lighter aluminum wound transformer but material cost and weight dictate what they use.

it is almost impossible to talk with them unless you can find a translator who speaks Chinese....i am bilingual but know not a word of Chinese....

most of the good engineering seems to come from other countries but Japan and Germany make a lot of good things as do Canada...and other places...

the profit drive is for sure real in the cost cutting but some newer components are far superior in function to the old ones....

back in the day >>> I took computer programming in college on the hugest key punch card computer of its time but do not utilize it to speak of...it was the size of a set of 2 very large rooms...

the cloud and storage and streaming movies are a change...to make money by subscriptions..

聽I buy BluRay movie disc for 1 dollar shipped to me.聽 and聽 I buy many things at a bargain. some cheap things are absolute junk and I have plenty of Pig Latin words to say about them... I tend to buy the older better quality American made tools. and avoid some tools from you know where , but still buy some of them due to the price. probably could use some choice Spanish words about the quality also...some are excellent some are imported junk! so back to paying more for quality tools as I can sometimes afford to do so....

buyer beware....

the newer PowerJack design of 2 SS boxes will get the heat of the transformer away from the mosfets with each box having its own fan cooling system. I cant imagine mounting a 160 pound inverter on the wall without a great degree of difficulty so the 2 box design with stereo style receiver feet is a good move by PowerJack also decreases the per box weight issue for shipping... i bought faster fans and fan voltage regulators so I can run them direct from the battery banks...

their LiFePO4 battery pre-built boxes are not a bargain at all nor is the big inverter they advertise to suckers for $4999....

i do note that their prices are actually coming down on some of them....the Chinese money is taking a nose dive in the markets....

a lot of parts they likely are not changing much, but it is fairly obvious that they are not sitting still in their product designs...

I usually buy 2 of every inverter so I have a backup...

Today I received the PowerJack (here within 2 weeks by fedex express at no cost to me - amazing) free parts and free driver board due to the shipping delay....for the 2nd PowerJack 26000 watt inverter 48-volt LF SP PSW AMG version and expect it will run continuous 8000 watt each or more...so for less than 1120 dollars I bought 2 of the 26000 watt inverters including tax and delivery and may be able to get 8000 out of each so yes, I still think the new version was a bargain to me....compared to the 2500 to 4000 dollar alternatives for a single 12000 watts of inverter power... for the off-grid system I am assembling...

there is no AC charging as I am not interested in hooking up to the grid monopoly, just hoping for a good unit without too many problems to run continuously when needed...

con路tin路u路ous路ly >>>without interruption or gaps.

half of the mosfet boards have the zener diodes on the center leg, which as I understand helps with the kick back problems(not likely the right word here)...it seems the mosfet heating up is the weak link in the inverter when they are pushed to their limits is my understanding and then it takes out the LF driver board also as Sean noted in his older YouTube videos...

most people will not have an adequate battery to run a big inverter 12,000 watt inverter continuously 24/7 off grid.... Sean does not...that is his weak link...to getting off the electric grid!聽

tinkering may be needed in the future until a better design is achieved!

sorry for the ramble but sometimes i think....bite my tongue!!!馃馃槑

馃槑have a great evening all聽

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back in the day >>> I took computer programming in college on the hugest key punch card computer of its time but do not utilize it to speak of...it was the size of a set of 2 very large rooms...

I聽 spend hours and hours on key punch IBM 370 programming at Iowa State University聽 a long time ago .聽 Those mainframe聽 IBM are huge .聽 聽 I聽 have many friends who are聽 electrical engineer and computer programmer聽 but they know nothing about聽 inverter or solar聽 and think it is too dangerous聽 to work with .聽 聽聽

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6 hours ago, dickson said:

back in the day >>> I took computer programming in college on the hugest key punch card computer of its time but do not utilize it to speak of...it was the size of a set of 2 very large rooms...

I聽 spend hours and hours on key punch IBM 370 programming at Iowa State University聽 a long time ago .聽 Those mainframe聽 IBM are huge .聽 聽 I聽 have many friends who are聽 electrical engineer and computer programmer聽 but they know nothing about聽 inverter or solar聽 and think it is too dangerous聽 to work with .聽 聽聽

yes, likely the same huge computer, as I took computer programming at Iowa State University about the year 1980. my college roommate in the towers dorm was an electrical engineer from my home town but they later moved to Sioux City, Iowa,,, so indeed it is a small world...

my first inverter was a 12-volt monster of about 5000 watt rating (possibly bought it聽 in the year 1996 or so) but soon found the battery to be the biggest problem to run it... i took it to Bolivia South America and bought 2 large 12 volt batteries but not enough battery....so learn from many years of generator use on my Bolivia Mountain off-grid remote getaway named "Pilgrim Valley". I have a couple solar panels in Bolivia to charge the tractor and jeep batteries...

I do not like the generator noise and their pollution but they were used sparingly as needed during the construction, but candles and homemade kerosene lights in the night were common fixtures. the government gave all the Bolivian remote people a small solar panel to power a simple light about 20 years ago. about 3 years ago the grid came into the rural mountains with 220 2 wire electric so now have the grid power there for the last 3 years(at my Bolivia mountain get away from the rat race homestead).聽

I am doing the present off-grid build in rural South Dakota, USA... Just a displaced farm boy trying to get back to the farm ways of life....

while I have also been making my Pilgrim Valley home in Bolivia, South America more modernized.. presently they are completing the open air off-grid wood-fired kitchen with 4 different cooking areas...including of course the pizza oven....

below is my 21 year off-grid progress in Bolivia a few pictures taken February 2022.. subtropical in the mountains of southern Bolivia....

off topic a bit I know.....

glad that spring has sprung in South Dakota....!!!!

cheers all, have a great day!!馃槑

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WhatsApp Image 2022-02-21 at 9.28.24 AM.jpeg

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yes, likely the same huge computer, as I took computer programming at Iowa State University about the year 1980. my college roommate in the towers dorm was an electrical engineer from my home town but they later moved to Sioux City, Iowa,,, so indeed it is a small world...

Marshalltown Iowa聽 was my home for 23 years .聽 聽 Keypunch a program and wait hours to get the聽 printout that the program works is like聽 powering a Powerjack inverter for the first time and聽 it works .聽 聽I聽 jump up and down for joy that it works聽 as offgrid is something never taught at any聽 university .聽 聽A Powerjack that blow up the FETs is a nightmare like a keypunch program that do not work .聽聽

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9 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

half of the mosfet boards have the zener diodes on the center leg, which as I understand helps with the kick back problems(not likely the right word here)...it seems the mosfet heating up is the weak link in the inverter when they are pushed to their limits is my understanding and then it takes out the LF driver board also as Sean noted in his older YouTube videos...

You mean the little cylindrical dark gray ferrite bead on the center leg?

I thought it was a decent idea until I did some testing and thinking: turns out that the ferrite bead on the center lead is COMPLETELY useless.聽 Why?聽 Simple: no power flows through that lead!聽 Power path is through the Source lead (on the right) and out the Drain (heatsink).聽 Yes, the center lead is connected to the Drain, but the power does not flow through the lead!

Putting a ferrite on the Source lead (rightmost) makes FET drive go bonkers.聽 Those little ferrites are useless.

The FETs themselves are not the weak link.聽 What makes them the weak link in PJ inverters is very weak gate drive, and very poor PCB layout of the gate signals (not to mention a complete misunderstanding of how the FET gates work).聽 If the FETs are not switched quickly and cleanly (or for that matter, not fully turned on), they will needlessly generate a lot of heat from resistive switching losses.聽 If there is crosstalk or other mangling of the necessary drive signals, there will be significant heat generated from the FETs briefly shorting the battery bank out.

Compare to the GS 12kw inverter running at FULL rated load (i.e. 12kw+)...and the FETs (with a fan on them) are barely 10 degrees above ambient temperatures.

The LF driver board gets "taken out" as a result of the FETs failing.聽 If the LF Driver board is blown, the FETs have already failed.聽

Pretty simple: the LF Driver board is designed for up to ~25v.聽 But if those FET gates fail and short through to the drain (due to overheating resulting from poor drive), the driver board can get blasted with 50v from the battery.

9 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

Today I received the PowerJack (here within 2 weeks by fedex express at no cost to me - amazing) free parts and free driver board due to the shipping delay....for the 2nd PowerJack 26000 watt inverter 48-volt LF SP PSW AMG version and expect it will run continuous 8000 watt each or more...so for less than 1120 dollars I bought 2 of the 26000 watt inverters including tax and delivery and may be able to get 8000 out of each so yes, I still think the new version was a bargain to me....compared to the 2500 to 4000 dollar alternatives for a single 12000 watts of inverter power... for the off-grid system I am assembling...

I will be extremely surprised if any of the current PJ inverters can run 8kw continuously.聽 Consider yourself extremely fortunate if they can do 6kw continuous.

9 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

I do not know anyone who has been to their (PowerJack) Chinese factory in Taiwan or wherever it may be... some things they source from the same copycat suppliers...

It's in Guangxi, China.聽 Dunno why some listings say "Taiwan" when nothing in the inverters comes from Taiwan (at least right now).

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1 hour ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

You mean the little cylindrical dark gray ferrite bead on the center leg?

yes, they are little grey beads on the center leg of the mosfets; that is correct. ferrite beads that do slide up and down on the center leg...

i have been studying mosfets some but still not totally clear on them yet... thanks

so far nothing has blown up so these are just extra parts they sent as a free gift...due to the delayed delivery of the 2nd 26000 watt LF SP PSW AMG version inverter...

I will try to keep each of the PowerJack 26000 watt PSW SP LF AMG verison inverters to 6000 watts continuous or less so I do not have to repair them...

hopefully I get the super-insulated off-grid solar shed air conditioned a bit; as ambient inside temperature is the issue I now must combat running multiple inverters on a large set of LiFePO4 batteries..

until a good solution comes along.... I bought more Delta cooling fans and voltage regulators to run the fans directly from the LIFePO4 batteries...

yes, their ads specifically state Taiwan made/origin for some of their stuff as if they are possibly trying to do the fake>>> we are not Chinese but Taiwan possibly, but Taiwan is actually claimed by China even if Taiwan tries to claim otherwise....

you have to trust your supplier's word (for what it may or may not be worth)馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ

thank for the replies as i am still learning more about the various electrical pieces and parts....not my specialty at all...but love to learn more....

thanks again馃槑

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It's in Guangxi, China.聽 Dunno why some listings say "Taiwan" when nothing in the inverters comes from Taiwan (at least right now).

yes, their ads specifically state Taiwan made/origin for some of their stuff as if they are possibly trying to do the fake>>> we are not Chinese but Taiwan possibly, but Taiwan is actually claimed by China even if Taiwan tries to claim otherwise....

I do not know but ebay say Taiwan聽 is where the seller is from .聽 聽Jack and Helen聽 are probably聽 relative .聽 聽 Taiwan is friendly to the USA聽 聽and聽 are Chinese who聽 escape聽 from China聽 after WW2聽 but many are free to travel聽 between the 2 country聽 any time they want聽 .聽 聽聽

Screenshot (316469).png

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Specification:聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽 聽聽

Brand 聽聽聽 聽 聽 聽 Power Jack
Item no. 聽 聽 LFPSW-20000-48-110/220
Continuous Output Power聽聽 20000W
Max Output Power 80000W
DC Input Voltage 48V
AC Output Voltage 110V/220V
Regulation 卤5%
Frequency 60HZ卤3%
Efficiency 90%
Output Wave Form Pure Sine Wave
Temperature Protection 70C
Input Low Voltage Alarm 42V
Input Low Voltage shutdown 41V
Input High Voltage Alarm 59V
Input High Voltage shutdown >60V
Warranty 1 year
Certificate CE
Components Made in Taiwan
Design 聽 聽 Taiwan 聽
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17 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Read closely: that's an inverter + a (supposedly!) 10kwh LiFePo4 battery bank.

Technically it just says a 10kw iron battery box.聽 If it was any other inverter bundle it might be a 10kWh lifepo4 pack, but since it has PJ in the mix it might just be a really heavy iron box.聽 ;)

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when you go and register these PowerJack inverters,,,,, it takes you to the PowerJack with Jack and Helen on skype...

so like i tell you it is hard to say where any of this stuff is actually made? and who copies who and what parts they actually manufactured or some other company owned by the chinese govermnment controls....

who alse can sell and ship this cheap??? pay the workers 25 cents an hour....

the ups and usps shipping in the USA is about 2 dollars a pound...

the u-power inverters come with the same PowerJack parts, a relabeling likely from the same plant.聽 I recently received a PowerJack inverter in a relabeled u-power box.聽

when i had issues with the eBay seller and sent a聽 skype message to Jack and Helen they covered it so they are not separate companies by any means... these are just employees selling powerjack products....

where their assembly is done or where the parts are made at is anyones' guess; unless you can tell me someone who has actually been to a real factory in China or Taiwan...

they sell to make a buck....and at a very cheap price,,, buyer beware of course馃槑馃馃ぃ馃ぃ馃ぃ

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21 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

No.聽 It's frankly astonishing how little most Chinese factories actually know about the electronics they manufacture and sell.聽 More often than not, a Chinese factory copies a design from another company (that presumably did their research)--but just because a Chinese factory sells something should not be taken to mean that they understand how it actually works.

Lol yeah, i had one vendor telling me how it was impossible for the LiFePO4 batteries they were selling to hold 200AH as advertised. But they undoubtedly could.

Very weird.

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