Just got my new PJ LFPSW-8000 Inverter

[RobertM]

It took 29 days from order date to arrive from China. I opened up the case to look at the components, but have not tested it yet. From the dates inside, it seems to have been built to order on December 29, 2021.  It's the 24V split phase "4000 watt continuous" AMG version, and I'm hoping to power a 230V 1/2hp well pump,  in case of grid failure. Three questions. 1)Is anybody familiar with the 7 pin amphenol type "110 V" plug?  2) Can I tweek the output voltage with the "L" potentiometer? 3) When I wire the universal power block for US 230V,  do I jumper the N1 and N2 and then run a single wire from them to act as the ground to the pump? Thanks.

[RobertM]

I just saw the  Genetry "Thor's Notebook" video on YouTube, and my 7-pin mystery plug must be for a remote LCD screen.

[dickson]

I just saw the  Genetry "Thor's Notebook" video on YouTube, and my 7-pin mystery plug must be for a remote LCD screen

Genetry Solar do not have video on  new PJ LFPSW-8000 Inverter  that I can find  .   Ebay  has powerjack inverter .   

[dickson]

3) When I wire the universal power block for US 230V,  do I jumper the N1 and N2 and then run a single wire from them to act as the ground to the pump? 

 

NO  NO   NO    Jump N1 and N2  to ground  will  cause a short  and  blow the fuse  IF  wired for  240 vac .    IF wire  for 110v then N1 and N2  can go to ground if wire for RV and will NOT be a floating neutral .     This  AMG  is not design for L!  N  L2   but will work if wire direct to your well pump  L1  L2  and ground is connected to the inverter chassis .      Grounding  is  complicated  for inverter and  generator .    IF  your well pump need more than  2000 watts the rev 11.1 control board may shut down the inverter with red light alarm .    

[RobertM]

Thanks. So the L1 and L2 should power the pump, and the ground wire for the submerged well pump should run from the ground terminal on the back of the inverter?

[Sid Genetry Solar]

10 hours ago, RobertM said:

1)Is anybody familiar with the 7 pin amphenol type "110 V" plug?

Like @dickson said, this is for their LCD board.

 

10 hours ago, RobertM said:

2) Can I tweek the output voltage with the "L" potentiometer?

What "L" potentiometer are you referring to?  On the control board internally?

 

10 hours ago, RobertM said:

3) When I wire the universal power block for US 230V,  do I jumper the N1 and N2 and then run a single wire from them to act as the ground to the pump?

As long as you remove the other jumper wire--i.e. follow the "220v AMG" wiring diagram with just the single jumper wire between the "N1" and "N2" (no other jumper wires--common electrical sense).

Technically you can.  But first remember: the inverter is NOT a ground source.  The pump ground should go to an electrical ground; you can also wire that same ground to the inverter chassis.  If you wanted to ground the inverter "neutral", that would be fine as well.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

I will be very surprised if the inverter is capable of 4kw continuous.  A much more reasonable continuous output expectation would be 2kw.

[RobertM]

5 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Like @dickson said, this is for their LCD board.

 

What "L" potentiometer are you referring to?  On the control board internally?

 

As long as you remove the other jumper wire--i.e. follow the "220v AMG" wiring diagram with just the single jumper wire between the "N1" and "N2" (no other jumper wires--common electrical sense).

Technically you can.  But first remember: the inverter is NOT a ground source.  The pump ground should go to an electrical ground; you can also wire that same ground to the inverter chassis.  If you wanted to ground the inverter "neutral", that would be fine as well.

Yes, adjust the pot on the control board. I have read that each click is ~ 3V plus or minus. I guess I should connect the pump to the ground wire that leads back to the panel, and just connect the inverter L1 and L2?

[RobertM]

13 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

I will be very surprised if the inverter is capable of 4kw continuous.  A much more reasonable continuous output expectation would be 2kw.

That would be OK, as it's a 1/2 hp pump that supposedly draws less than 1000 volts once it has started. Once I have tested it, I'll report back.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

Can you provide a photo of the control board pot?

If there's 2 knobs, the other will adjust the internal battery voltage setpoints.  Differentiating is as simple as twisting one of them...if the output voltage doesn't change, put it back where it was, and twist the other one.

There's no science/rhyme or reason for the voltage adjustment...you'll just have to fire the inverter up with the cover off, and twist the knob while measuring the output voltage.

 

You can ground the Neutral jumper wire on N1 - N2 if you want.  Not going to hurt anything.  Just remember that the inverter is not a ground source 😉.  And use common electrical sense; the 4 output terminal wires are basically 2 transformer secondaries.  Wired in parallel for 120v, wired in series for 240v.

[RobertM]

Just now, RobertM said:

That would be OK, as it's a 1/2 hp pump that supposedly draws less than 1000 volts once it has started. Once I have tested it, I'll report back.

1000 watts, I mean.

[RobertM]

1 minute ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Can you provide a photo of the control board pot?

If there's 2 knobs, the other will adjust the internal battery voltage setpoints.  Differentiating is as simple as twisting one of them...if the output voltage doesn't change, put it back where it was, and twist the other one.

There's no science/rhyme or reason for the voltage adjustment...you'll just have to fire the inverter up with the cover off, and twist the knob while measuring the output voltage.

 

You can ground the Neutral jumper wire on N1 - N2 if you want.  Not going to hurt anything.  Just remember that the inverter is not a ground source 😉.  And use common electrical sense; the 4 output terminal wires are basically 2 transformer secondaries.  Wired in parallel for 120v, wired in series for 240v.

OK, I'll post a photo later today

[Paul]

Maybe I'm going a little off topic now, but whilst we are on the subject of wattages I noticed that the casing of your '8000w AMG' inverter looks more like the '6000w 230v' that they used to sell on ebay UK.

So I had a look on the ebay US website and sure enough the '8000w split phase': https://www.ebay.com/itm/403247207055 looks like the '6000w single phase' 230v unit I have seen for sale on the UK ebay site before (no listings at present for comparison).

The '10000w split phase' unit https://www.ebay.com/itm/403127622433 looks identical in casing size etc. to the 8000w single phase 230v that they sell on ebay UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373439121334 (thats the one I have).

Is there some reason for this difference or it just some more dodgy chinese maths? I'm not sure whether the 'split phase' thing makes the same size inverter somehow able to miraculously produce more output than a single-phase 230v unit??

[RobertM]

6 minutes ago, Paul said:

Maybe I'm going a little off topic now, but whilst we are on the subject of wattages I noticed that the casing of your '8000w AMG' inverter looks more like the '6000w 230v' that they used to sell on ebay UK.

So I had a look on the ebay US website and sure enough the '8000w split phase': https://www.ebay.com/itm/403247207055 looks like the '6000w single phase' 230v unit I have seen for sale on the UK ebay site before (no listings at present for comparison).

The '10000w split phase' unit https://www.ebay.com/itm/403127622433 looks identical in casing size etc. to the 8000w single phase 230v that they sell on ebay UK: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/373439121334 (thats the one I have).

Is there some reason for this difference or it just some more dodgy chinese maths? I'm not sure whether the 'split phase' thing makes the same size inverter somehow able to miraculously produce more output than a single-phase 230v unit??

It shipped as 43 lbs, and seems to have a pretty hefty transformer. I'll post a photo of the transformer, later, as well.

[dickson]

Is there some reason for this difference or it just some more dodgy chinese maths? I'm not sure whether the 'split phase' thing makes the same size inverter somehow able to miraculously produce more output than a single-phase 230v unit?

You are not off topic .   The new AMG with 6 wires transformer  with 2 secondary  120v windings  is better for single phase 120vac  .  Your  8 kw  230 vac single phase 50 hz   produce  more output than the  AMG  wired  as split phase  L1  N  L2 .   The AMG should only be wire L1 and  L2   and Ground for  240vac 60 hz  single phase  OR  120vac  single phase  .   The old 5 wires transformer has   one secondary winding  and a center tap  is good for  split phase L1  N  L2  .    AMG is not recommended for L1  N  L2 .  

[Paul]

19 minutes ago, dickson said:

You are not off topic .   The new AMG with 6 wires transformer  with 2 secondary  120v windings  is better for single phase 120vac  .  Your  8 kw  230 vac single phase 50 hz   produce  more output than the  AMG  wired  as split phase  L1  N  L2 .   The AMG should only be wire L1 and  L2   and Ground for  240vac 60 hz  single phase  OR  120vac  single phase  .   The old 5 wires transformer has   one secondary winding  and a center tap  is good for  split phase L1  N  L2  .    AMG is not recommended for L1  N  L2 .  

Ah thanks for the explanation, it makes sense now. I've never quite got my head around the US split-phase system. In the UK and most of Europe domestic supplies are usually single phase 230v, industrial supplies usually 3-phase.

[dickson]

Ah thanks for the explanation, it makes sense now.

Your welcome .   The old  5 wires transformer has  the one secondary as a 240vac winding  and the center tap makes two 120vac  secondary  for L1  N  L2 .   The AMG has 2 separate  secondary windings and both are 120vac  so not good for L1  N  L2  .    PJ in China do not understand  240vac split phase  and advertise the AMG as having  more output but  actually output less with the rev 11.1  control board .    

 

[Sid Genetry Solar]

2 hours ago, dickson said:

AMG is not recommended for L1  N  L2 .  

No idea where you get this.

The "AMG" version is based off the GS concept for rewiring the transformer for full output at different voltages.  It is equally at home with a single-phase output, as well as a spit-phase output.  Just rewire it as necessary.

Only difference being that the PJ version only ever regulates 110v from one secondary winding...the other winding is unregulated and appears to also be unfiltered.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

2 hours ago, dickson said:

The old 5 wires transformer has   one secondary winding  and a center tap  is good for  split phase L1  N  L2  .

I dunno where you get all this.  There is no internal difference to the transformers, just how the wires are presented.  There is no magic "5-wires" and "6-wires" transformer difference.  The only practical difference is how the wires are presented.

I have a "5-wire" ASL9 PJ transformer.  It still has 2 secondary windings, just the same as the "AMG" transformers.  The only difference on the "5-wires ASL9" is that the "middle" wires of the windings are both crimped into a single lug.  I could literally cut one of the secondary windings' wires out of that lug, crimp them into a separate lug, and *bam* I'd have a "6-wire AMG" transformer.  (Sure, the 2 windings probably won't be balanced voltagewise, but that has nothing to do with the point I'm making here.)

 

[Sid Genetry Solar]

1 hour ago, dickson said:

The old  5 wires transformer has  the one secondary as a 240vac winding  and the center tap makes two 120vac  secondary  for L1  N  L2 .   The AMG has 2 separate  secondary windings and both are 120vac  so not good for L1  N  L2  .

Again, this is distinction with absolutely no real-world difference.

EVERY SINGLE PJ TRANSFORMER with a split-phase output...has TWO 120v secondary windings, wired in series.  The junction point between the 2 coils is the Neutral line.

If the two windings are put in series inside the transformer...if they're put in series at the crimp lugs on the end of the transformer wires...or if they're put in series externally with an "AMG" jumper wire, it makes NO electrical difference.

 

I've even rewound an older copper-wound PJ transformer (with the colored insulation wires)...and the windings were series-connected internally at the "neutral" junction wire connection.

 

If you unwind a PJ transformer, you'll find all 3 windings (the two 120v windings, and the "DC" side winding) are each separated with a layer of clear plastic wrap.

[dickson]

 I could literally cut one of the secondary windings' wires out of that lug, crimp them into a separate lug, and *bam* I'd have a "6-wire AMG" transformer.  (Sure, the 2 windings probably won't be balanced voltagewise, but that has nothing to do with the point I'm making here.)

I  know the point you are  making  that PJ let the buyer decide if the inverter is  120vac single phase  or can be  jumper to be  240vac  single phase  with one 120vac line .  PJ on ebay say  not  L1  N  L2 .   I know it can be wired L1  N  L2  to the house but  the 2 windings  may not be balanced voltagewise .   Is that the reason  PJ  say not L1  N  L2  ?

IF  jumper for  direct  240vac single phase  60 hz  and   L1  and  L2 not balanced  is ok  to start an  inductive load  but if wire split phase  and a large load is on  one of the 120vac line then  the inductive  load   will not get the full 240vac   output  and may not start .   That split phase may have an unbalanced  line  and  reason to not  L1  N  L2  but  wired as L1 and L2  direct to the well pump  without  neutral   and ground  connect to  the  inverter case .  

[Sid Genetry Solar]

1 hour ago, dickson said:

PJ on ebay say  not  L1  N  L2 .   I know it can be wired L1  N  L2  to the house but  the 2 windings  may not be balanced voltagewise .   Is that the reason  PJ  say not L1  N  L2  ?

I have always understood that warning to refer to the AC input--which can't handle a 3-wire AC input ("L1 N L2"), or the inverter will blow up due to a backfeed condition.

Beyond that, there is absolutely no issue with split-phase output from an "AMG transformer."  For that matter, there isn't any intrinsic design difference between the "5-wire" transformers and an "AMG 6-wire" transformer. 

 

1 hour ago, dickson said:

IF  jumper for  direct  240vac single phase  60 hz  and   L1  and  L2 not balanced  is ok  to start an  inductive load  but if wire split phase  and a large load is on  one of the 120vac line then  the inductive  load   will not get the full 240vac   output  and may not start .   That split phase may have an unbalanced  line  and  reason to not  L1  N  L2  but  wired as L1 and L2  direct to the well pump  without  neutral   and ground  connect to  the  inverter case .  

Phase voltage imbalance is in most cases a complete non-issue--it's just the customer who notices it.  As most appliances accept a fairly large voltage range, it generally won't hurt or affect appliances in any way.

Most of the PJ inverters only regulate output voltage from a single 120v phase anyway--and often don't even have an AC output filter cap on the other phase.  This is even on the "5-wire" transformers, one of which I have on my bench right now.  The L2 wire goes directly from the transformer to the terminal block.  No filtering or regulation whatsoever on the other phase--and that's a v9.0 PJ inverter with a copper-wound transformer.

 

[RobertM]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:26 AM, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Can you provide a photo of the control board pot?

If there's 2 knobs, the other will adjust the internal battery voltage setpoints.  Differentiating is as simple as twisting one of them...if the output voltage doesn't change, put it back where it was, and twist the other one.

There's no science/rhyme or reason for the voltage adjustment...you'll just have to fire the inverter up with the cover off, and twist the knob while measuring the output voltage.

 

 😉Two pots, VR1 and VR2

 

[RobertM]

On 1/24/2022 at 7:39 AM, Paul said:

Maybe I'm going a little off topic now, but whilst we are on the subject of wattages I noticed that the casing of your '8000w AMG' inverter looks more like the '6000w 230v' that they used to sell on ebay UK.

 

 

 

[RobertM]

LF-ASL2-AMG4