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20,000watt AMG version PowerJack LF PSW SP


pilgrimvalley
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PowerJack via eBay auction>>>> last night I scored a 20k AMG version PowerJack PSW SP LF inverter it is a 48 volt unit so i will have to put 2 of my 24-volt tech direct prefab batteries together to get a 48 volt battery to test it on. 

I have some 330 watt PV panels and Outback Flexmax 80amp MPPT's i can hook it up to for testing. 

I don't know how long until it arrives but anywhere from 7 days to 45 days who knows. 

Only $731.49 including shipping and tax.

yea ha >>> the momma hair sheep (no shearing required) had a baby this morning so need to check on the sheep and do more wiring in the solar power shed! 

more later , 

Image 91 - 20000W LF SP pure sine wave power inverter DC48v TO AC110V & 220V-AMG-CN-OCN

Image 71 - 20000W LF SP pure sine wave power inverter DC48v TO AC110V & 220V-AMG-CN-OCN

 

20000W LF SP pure sine wave power inverter DC48v TO AC110V & 220V-AMG-CN-OCN

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  • pilgrimvalley changed the title to 20,000watt AMG version PowerJack LF PSW SP
  • 1 month later...

must be a tiny transformer compared to my other one, have to open it up but no time today.

Like to know if  the transformer is 32vac  ASL6.5  or ASL9.0    which would be better for  lithium  IRON phosphate battery  56 volts .  The control board should be rev 11.1  .  Like to know if the  LED on the LF driver always stay OFF .   Thank you .  

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16 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

the box says 84 pounds so it can not be anything like my other powerjack 20k 48-volt inverter that weighs about 160 pounds.

must be a tiny transformer compared to my other one

It's like a box of chocolates. You never know what you'll get.

Powerjack these days will literally put anything into an inverter and call it whatever size/rating they feel like.  It's why I won't buy any more new powerjacks from now on.  (Still like my older pjs!)

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LOL indeed. 

I wonder why nowadays they always put one less capacitor on the mainboards than there are positions for? Just another penny-pinching excercise?

I've had this on both of the 8kW (claimed) mainboards that I have had in the past year - one 10.3 and one 11.1,  and I notice the same on your mainboard. I have added the 4th cap myself on both boards as they don't cost much and my assumption is that 4 caps are better than 3! Nothing untoward has happened yet despite several months of use.

However I do agree the old ones are better - my old 2013 PJ 8k is still the best performer and doesn't have any heat problems since I replaced the aged unbranded fan with a Delta 24V 1.5A one last year. I just don't use the old one over winter as the high idle current of the twin transformers wastes too much of the precious little solar power that we get Oct-Feb.

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7 hours ago, Paul said:

my assumption is that 4 caps are better than 3!

Can't argue with that!  The older large mainboards had 6 caps, then they started only putting in 5 of 6.  Then they changed to the small boards with 4 spots and almost immediately only filled 3 of 4.  Maybe 3 is "enough" but I feel better with 6.

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Comes down to acceptable levels of AC load induced ripple and droop under abrupt load increases.  Lots of ripple is not good for the longevity of the battery (LA, li, what ever type you like).  Yes, they might be using capacitors with high capacitance and better ripple current ratings to counter the lower number... but I seriously doubt that 🙂

Given that PJ is mostly a work of fiction anyway I doubt that any of this this is given even 1ms of consideration.

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17 minutes ago, TheButcher said:

Given that PJ is mostly a work of fiction anyway I doubt that any of this this is given even 1ms of consideration.

And you would be right.  Measuring capacitor ripple current is not the easiest, but I'm pretty sure the difference would be easily spied with an oscilloscope on an inverter under load.

They had a spate of bad caps recently (the black ones, not the brown/purple ones they're using now)...must have been cheaper, but they ended up with a rash of capacitor failures causing FETs to blow out--yeah, it was colorful.  Caps would leak electrolyte / corrode off their own leads, etc.  It was bad enough that they went back to the purple ones.

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On 11/30/2021 at 11:09 PM, Sid Genetry Solar said:

And you would be right.  Measuring capacitor ripple current is not the easiest, but I'm pretty sure the difference would be easily spied with an oscilloscope on an inverter under load.

They had a spate of bad caps recently (the black ones, not the brown/purple ones they're using now)...must have been cheaper, but they ended up with a rash of capacitor failures causing FETs to blow out--yeah, it was colorful.  Caps would leak electrolyte / corrode off their own leads, etc.  It was bad enough that they went back to the purple ones.

Thankfully all three mainboards (the v1.4, 10.3 and 11.1) that I have are all fitted with the same brand of 'brown' capacitors. Not seen any purple ones. The ancient v1.4 had 4, but the newer two were only fitted with 3 out of 4. I wasn't able to find a source of the brown so the ones I bought for infill of the missing caps were these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/384324739356 

They look different to the photo's of the ones I have seen on blown PJ boards so hopefully will last, especially as there there are three of the 'good' ones already on each mainboard. But I bought 4 so I have a couple of spare ones. Been running the house and garage during daytime and evening on the v10.3 for nearly 3 months now with some fairly heavy loads on a daily basis. checked this morning and the new cap still looks ok (no obvious leakage).

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Been running the house and garage during daytime and evening on the v10.3 for nearly 3 months now with some fairly heavy loads on a daily basis. checked this morning and the new cap still looks ok (no obvious leakage)

I  added  6 more capacitor outside of the  inverter for a total of 12  capacitors  and no problem  running for a month now with the rev 11.1 control board .   12 capacitors help  start  inductive load  like microwave oven and  5hp  air compresser .    

DSCF5969 cap.JPG

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still have not opened it (the 20K AMG version inverter) but got more solar panels mounted on the array structures (unistrut and 2x6 wood triangles at 45 degrees fixed ground mounts with some concrete blocks to level them), and 28 of 32 LiFePO4 Eve cells LF280K have arrived along with some other battery necessities. going toadd more ballast but not much problems although the wind has taken one and added a dent to it before i got it mounted. Thirty  250-watt PV panels mounted now>>>> a feat for this old one man operation.

thanks for all your posts and comments!

cheers all from South Dakota. looks like the sun is going to shine so time fore more solar panel and battery and inverter work out in the off-grid solar build. 😎

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16 hours ago, Paul said:

so the ones I bought for infill of the missing caps were these:

Those are 22000 uf at 50v to replace 10000uf at 80v?  Seems a bit off spec, especially if you are mixing them with original 80v caps.  Just saying....

Edited by dochubert
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So long as the voltage rating is higher than expected peak voltage input by a safe margin it shouldn't be a problem.  The large increase in capacitance may present a problem for the PCB if the inverter is ever dead dropped onto a battery etc without precharging, depending on the track width and copper thickness.  Fuses / breakers may need to be uprated likewise.  Of course it should never be done but its the things that are never done that always get you.

Presumably Paul has a 24 or 36 system?

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7 hours ago, dochubert said:

Those are 22000 uf at 50v to replace 10000uf at 80v?  Seems a bit off spec, especially if you are mixing them with original 80v caps.  Just saying....

My inverters are 24V input, so had 18000uF 50V caps fitted as standard. These 50V 22000uF ones were the closest match I could easily source.

the 80V caps are used only on the 48v mainboards I suspect.

Edited by Paul
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7 hours ago, TheButcher said:

So long as the voltage rating is higher than expected peak voltage input by a safe margin it shouldn't be a problem.  The large increase in capacitance may present a problem for the PCB if the inverter is ever dead dropped onto a battery etc without precharging, depending on the track width and copper thickness.  Fuses / breakers may need to be uprated likewise.  Of course it should never be done but its the things that are never done that always get you.

Presumably Paul has a 24 or 36 system?

Yep, 24V hence the 50V caps. My inverters are 24v-240v rated at 8000 "Chinese Watts". But I only draw 16A max from them (about 3.6kW) hence why I've never blown one up yet I guess.

Edited by Paul
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  • 3 months later...

April 1st 2022 : I opened the 2nd 20000 AMG version inverter box today;; been sitting there for about a week or so..... had a loose nut which was one rattle i heard picking up the box...it is the nut on the transformer hold down bracket. this  inverter is tiny compared to the 20000 watt one i got 2 years ago...which weighs over 164 pounds.....

going to have to take the top off it now cause the bolt is floating around inside someplace....no physical damage on the outside and the double boxing looked good..

of course the included manual does not have any specification that match it. no charger, no ups, no ats, none of that stuff just a 20k 48-volt lf psw sp amg version inverter the bottom seems to be where they are hiding the specs so it was just a coincidence i saw that because of the loose nut in the box rattling around...it has 6 support feet on the bottom, sort of like the old stereo receivers.

must be microsizing all of them ....this one is a lot lighter maybe 60 to 80 pounds tops... must be a plastic terroidal core???? ha ha ha taking lesson from you know who🤣

 i think it shrunk for the 3rd time... kind of like the movie .....hey honey i shrunk the kids....

everyone is sleeping so time to break out the socket set.... and pop the top!

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PowerJack 20000 watt lf sp psw amg version inverter received about a week ago: the big board in the bottom has 4 brown cylinder shaped capacitors and 12 mosfets on each side so 24 mosfets with the 12 on the split heat sink having the little bead on the center leg & the 12 mosfets on the long one piece heat sink do not have the beads on the center leg of those mosfets...

i think the board ( i described above) has a 2020 date on it...

i did not measure the transformer diameter but i think it has the tag on this one...

what is interesting is on the bottom of the case it has asl 3 / asl 4 laser cut into it but you do not know which one yet. it is lase cut in a way that you would have to be inside the case looking down to read it but the toroidal transformer makes that impossible...from the outside  looking at it from the bottom it has the letters reversed if you try to read it that way. kind of like russian letters??

had to reassemble it as the family is up. 12of the 10mm head screws which are magnetic so probably a galvanized steel or something the case is stainless steel and fits together nicely.

again??? >>> it has the brass bars interconnecting the two positive and two negative dc posts... brass in a rather poor electrical conductor but cheaper than copper or tinned copper....

pictures later...😎

building a shelf to put it on...

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PowerJack LF SP PSW AMG version inverter description: wonder if the POWERJACK 16,000 watt and the POWERJACK 20,000 watt LF SP PSW AMG version inverters are in the same box but have a different sized toroidal transformer. there is a weight difference but i have not put them on the scale yet...

there is again the 2 wires going from the control board to the negative dc busbar of unknown significance??? the 16000 watt had it also.

i pulled the end panel off the 20000 watt LF SP PSW AMG version inverter to be able to retrieve the loose transformer bracket bolt and flat washer. the main board with the 3 aluminum heat sinks to dissipate the heat from the mosfets is connected to the stainless steel case with white nylon stand offs that are fairly thick, so not to break in shipping....

too bad they did not have a lock washer or locktite or something to keep the bolts in the bracket to the toroidal transformer during shipping....in order to replace that one bolt for the insulated toroidal transformer bracket, i may have to disassemble it even more.

12 bolts to remove the top, 6 bolts to remove the two ss protective covers, 3 more bolts to remove the fan end of the case, the front and back will be a little more difficult as the wires are bundled in zip ties..

it is a very modular case design of all sides bolted together and the holes line up good,,, the edges of the case are a bit hard on the hands(a bit sharp).

i definitely like the six wide support feet on the bottom of the case... not a wall mount style... it is a put in on a shelf style... i like that...

the included manual does label more of the pieces and parts but not all.

a schematic diagram like my Sansui stereo receiver had or the NEC tv and VCR had would be useful...

as they just copy other inverter designs according to some ,,,, it should not be some big secret, but then again maybe this schematic diagram is available some where...

it seems on this one the connection are on the other side of the 3 position switch powersav off, off,  powersav on.... i will not be using the powersav on position in my build...

the 48 volt 1.5 amp fan is a 2 wire red and black connection....

the brown cylinder capacitors say 80v 1000 micro farads i see that it has 4 of those

did not read the numbers on the mosfets....maybe later...

 i did see at least one hall sensor and 4 wires coming out of the transformer i think those are from the transformer secondary as i understand it....

should of taken more pictures... maybe later,....🤔🤔😎

need to get a shelf set up first....

it is a nice sunny day out,,,, glad i am not in a flood zone,,, i have an artesian well that feeds a pond year around... great for the animals in the pasture at my south dakota off-grid farm... mini farm as it is only 6.6 acres....

have a great day😎 cheers all;

 

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PowerJack 20000 watt LF PSW SP AMG version ; more pics from cell phone camera... it is not user friendly at times... especially in poor light...

the smaller nut and bolt was to the toroidal transformer bracket rattling around in the box; the bigger bolt headed screw are the 10mm head screws they use to assemble the case together with

the sticker on the bottom just has some number for hv and lv testing.

you can see the ASL3 ASL4 laser cut on the bottom but backwards as it must be designed to be read from the inside before the toroidal transformer is bolted in place.

have to open it up again to get more specifications.

cheers all, have a great Saturday... the sun is shining and it is a super day outside...😎

 

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2 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

PowerJack LF SP PSW AMG version inverter description: wonder if the POWERJACK 16,000 watt and the POWERJACK 20,000 watt LF SP PSW AMG version inverters are in the same box but have a different sized toroidal transformer. there is a weight difference but i have not put them on the scale yet...

The only way to determine the actual possible continuous wattage of said inverters (that is, without testing them) is to count the number of strands on each transformer winding; the core size only determines the limit for how much wire could be on the core.  GS6 inverter winding specification pretty well maxes out an ASL5 core--so if you've got an ASL3 or ASL4 core in said PJ, you won't be able to push much more than 4-5kw continuous no matter what.

Helps considerably if you have a caliper that can measure the diameter of the wire (2.0, 2.3, and 2.5mm are the diameters they use).

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-so if you've got an ASL3 or ASL4 core in said PJ, you won't be able to push much more than 4-5kw continuous no matter what. 

Oh NO -  now only one quarter of  20000 watt  and  ASL4  will not output  4kw continuous  .   How is  this AMG   better than the old 20000 watt with the ASL9 transformer as advertise  ?    

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i will have to get a pic of my 164 pound 20000 watt one...also,,, i think they have shrunk it 3 times now.... it was not an amg version it came about 2 plus years ago...

there are some models that are heavier that may be better... 

for instance the powerjack 26000 48volt lf psw sp amg version is a lot bigger transformer, a lot bigger box etc....

the 20000 watt one does have a label on the white output wires but i did not read it .... i will open it up again....

hard to buy 2 of the same unless you buy 2 at a time...🤣🤔🤔🤣

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