48v 15000 watt low voltage shut down and no restart

[Sam]

I have a 48v 15000 watt power jack inverter/ charger that was working good til the battery voltage dropped down to 44 volts and then it shut down.  I switched over to utility comp power til battery voltage was brought up to 52v.  I tried to  restart the inverter but the when turning power on the red alarm light comes on and stays on but no auditable alarm noise only red light.   I tried draining the power from the inverter completely and powering it back on but still no go.  The led screen on inverter powers up but the inverter does nothing.

 

Thanks

Sam

[Sam]

Also I wanted to add the 2 green light are on when I power inverter up as well

[Sam]

And the dip switch seems to be acting funny.  I have open lead acid battery and I'm suppose to have it on setting 6 but one of the green lights isn't that bright as apposed to having it on 5.  I've always had issues with the fan always running also

[Sid Genetry Solar]

If all 3 LEDs are lighting up, this means that the CPU is stuck in startup.  Possible that it's resetting dozens of times per second due to shorted FETs or otherwise?

One way to check if the FETs are at fault would be to unscrew and unplug the LF Driver board.  If the inverter gives a beep error (and just the red light), that'd kinda indicate FETs are damaged.

 

Charge / AC input on PJ inverters seems to be a bit problematic.  No comment on that 😉.

[dickson]

And the dip switch seems to be acting funny.  I have open lead acid battery and I'm suppose to have it on setting 6 but one of the green lights isn't that bright as apposed to having it on 5.  I've always had issues with the fan always running also

 

Is the  dip switch inside the inverter ?    My 15kw PS  fan run even after shut down for an hour  which is normal  because   sometimes  it takes  the transformer 2 hours to cool down .   Your  15kw can be repair  but  without  charging function  if that is ok ?   The  information  given so far  do not tell  what parts  are needed  except  that it  is not working .    I  need photo  of  control  board  and  charger and output board  that show  L!  and neutral  from transformer wire connections  .    What is the  voltage  from transformer L1 to N  and  L2 to N  after removing  the cover ?    Measuring  ac voltage is very  dangerous so  if you never done   electronic work  then  maybe just take some photos  to see if parts is still available .     Thank you  .   

[Sam]

15 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

If all 3 LEDs are lighting up, this means that the CPU is stuck in startup.  Possible that it's resetting dozens of times per second due to shorted FETs or otherwise?

One way to check if the FETs are at fault would be to unscrew and unplug the LF Driver board.  If the inverter gives a beep error (and just the red light), that'd kinda indicate FETs are damaged.

 

Charge / AC input on PJ inverters seems to be a bit problematic.  No comment on that 😉.

Ty for input.  What 3 led lights are you referring to?  Please look at pics and let me know what you think.  Also when inverter shut down over low voltage I shut inverter off within 2 min.  I never smelled anything burnt.  I checked voltage of black wires going from the Moffett heat sink to transformer and its reading direct voltage/ 28 volts on each heat sink.  I checked for ac voltage coming out of inverter and there is no voltage reading.

[Sam]

12 hours ago, dickson said:

And the dip switch seems to be acting funny.  I have open lead acid battery and I'm suppose to have it on setting 6 but one of the green lights isn't that bright as apposed to having it on 5.  I've always had issues with the fan always running also

 

Is the  dip switch inside the inverter ?    My 15kw PS  fan run even after shut down for an hour  which is normal  because   sometimes  it takes  the transformer 2 hours to cool down .   Your  15kw can be repair  but  without  charging function  if that is ok ?   The  information  given so far  do not tell  what parts  are needed  except  that it  is not working .    I  need photo  of  control  board  and  charger and output board  that show  L!  and neutral  from transformer wire connections  .    What is the  voltage  from transformer L1 to N  and  L2 to N  after removing  the cover ?    Measuring  ac voltage is very  dangerous so  if you never done   electronic work  then  maybe just take some photos  to see if parts is still available .     Thank you  .   

I was mistaken when speaking abt dip switch.  I mentioned to say selector switch.  Also when measuring voltage from heat sink to transformer I get a reading of 28v direct current on each heat sink which together equal battery voltage.  The white insulated wires coming out of transformer measure 0 voltage.  Please look at pics and get back with me.  

Ty

[dickson]

Thank you  for the sharp photos .   The  white wires  reading  zero at the transformer mean the LF driver not working  .   I  see one led  light up on control board and no led light up on LF driver .  Is this photo taken with the switch on ?   The control board  should have 3 led on  continuous  and LF driver led on also when switch on .   Mosfets are all  good  from the photos .  Please turn switch on  for no more than  5 seconds to see if the 3 leds on control board  start  blinking  and one LF driver led also blink .  IF  any led  is blinking  SHUT OFF  the switch immediately  or the mofets  may blow up .     Let  me know .   

[Sid Genetry Solar]

@SamI'm afraid you spotted the problem....that hole in the main MCU ("CPU" PJ calls it) shouldn't be there--it indicates catastrophic failure of the MCU (microcontroller unit).  Wish I knew what the MCU die looked like, that way I could use some forensic analysis to determine what caused it to blow...

You'll need at least a new control board.  Not sure if the damage has gone any farther downstream (i.e. LF Driver / MOS boards)...

[Sid Genetry Solar]

Looked at the pinout...technically, the only signal line that could cause issues in that area of the "CPU" is the AC Mains relay.  Wonder if it doesn't have a sufficient backsplash diode on it...? 

The same port that controls the relay also controls all 3 LEDs (front panel).

[dickson]

The same port that controls the relay also controls all 3 LEDs (front panel).

 

Yes sir .   The new rev 11.1 control board come with new LF driver will  fix your inverter  .  The  mosboard  led is on may not mean the mosboard is  good .   All the  mosfets  need to be check like in Sean video  and  I  found  that  the last  shipment of mosboard  has some bad resistor  .  A bad resistor on one mosboard  will blow up all the other mosfets  that I test on my test bench .   You can not trust ebay parts .   Show the photos of  the bad  MCU  and your test  of the transformer ac voltage is zero and  some of  the other photos  and  do not comment on charger  and that your max load is less than 5000w and the  seller may send  the parts  or the spare parts is 100 dollars .  Ask for the output board since your voltage reading is zero .    Thank you .    

 

[Sam]

Im still having troubles with this inverter.  I contacted supplier I purchased it from and they gave me 2 new cpu boards and drivers and still it does not work.  I check the wires coming off transformer into AC board and they are tight.  I measured the voltage coming out of transformer and the pic with the blue circles measure roughly 115v but the one wire in bottom left of that pick right above the blue circle has no voltage on it.  This has the battery charger on this but if I can bypass that in anyway to resolve this issue Im all for it.

thanks

sam

[dickson]

 I contacted supplier I purchased it from and they gave me 2 new cpu boards and drivers and still it does not work

 

I  go back to your post  on july 28 .    Look like you  replace the rev 10.3 control board with the  bad MCU  with a   new rev 11.1 control board .   Your new  picture  show  the green  LED  working  but  has problem  .   Your  output  and  charger  board  show 115 vac .  My  15kw powerjack  do not  have charger board  and is wire  different  .   I  will  open  my powerjack   and   get back  to this post  later  .    Your  charger board  may  be damage  on july 28  and  need to be change  with a output board that has no   charger  board  .    Thank you  for the video  and  I   will  compare  to  my  rev 11.1 control board   running  with no problem  later  .  

 

[Sam]

also i disassembled the inverter a little more so I could test mosfets.   I got 1 section removed and it tested great.  The visual inspection shows no signs of bad mosfets.  I took a picture of what I believe is the ac charge board and probably the direct current charger.  I dont understand how to hook up the charger.  From what I understand I should wire up 110 volts to the 110 input on the front lower left panel of inverter but the thing is I have 110v going out of it.  Not shur why?  I attached a pic of the front cover where the 110 input is and I circled it in blue but I have 110 coming out.

thanks

sam

[dickson]

I dont understand how to hook up the charger.  From what I understand I should wire up 110 volts to the 110 input on the front lower left panel of inverter 

 

Sorry  my  15kw  do not have a charger  board and I  do not know how to hook up the  charger  .    Can you  not connect  to the 110 input  and not use charging  ?   Almost eveyone  who post in this forum  say  charging  is a problem .    Your  connection  to the   L1  N  L2  output  is  disturbing  .    The  bare copper  wire  is Ground  and suppose connect to the inverter metal case .  The  white  wire  is  N  to the  inverter output  and   need  to be  AWG 6  the same size  as the  red  and black  to L1  and L2  .   My  output board  which  has no  charging  is  completely  different  from your  output  board in the picture .   There is not  and  easy way  to  modify  your inverter  with  an output board like  mine .   I  suggest  send  the video  of the  LED  blinking  and  making the thumping  noise  to the seller and  have a powerjack  engineer  look at the video  .  Thank  you for all the pictures .   Now  I  know why  Sean  have such a hard time  repairing  powerjack inverter  and not answer  because  of all  the diiferent  boards .   

[Sid Genetry Solar]

If you have 110v coming out of the AC Input terminal, something is seriously miswired; factory or otherwise.

I don't think your problem is FETs, driver board, or anything of that sort.  I would suspect a bad connection somewhere between the secondary (high voltage) side of the transformer, and the battery terminals.  Try wiggling the transformer connection wires, or pull the white covers back from over the crimps.  Are the crimped transformer wire ends loose / poorly connecting?  Are the screw terminals on the PCB loose?  Can you move the ring terminal back and forth while the screw is tightened? (They've had issues with the screws being too long--they'll be tight but not actually holding the ring terminal.)

In short: the inverter can regulate output voltage at no load.  As soon as you put a load on it, the regulation goes wonky--this to me sounds like the regulator is not seeing any AC output voltage as soon as you put a load on it.

The video showed your tool barely moving as the inverter is "warping" the drive signals.  If there was a solid connection, I'd expect that tool to be racing with the transformer, as the output AC voltage ramps from 0 to likely past 300vAC each time it "warps".  If it was a FET drive issue, you wouldn't hear the sound from the transformer OR the FETs would just blow up.

(sorry, thought I posted this last night!)

[Sam]

Thankyou for the input

I sent video to seller and the engineers looked and it and they can not figure out what is wrong with it and suggest I return it to them for repair.  They are suppose to get back with me on who to send it to seeing how the repair shop in michigan is shut down but they havnt got back yet.   If I have to send it to california that will cost some money to send 100 lbs there plus I dont have original packaging. 

Hey Sid how would I test the regulator and where is it located.

I enclosed more pics and I double checked the wiring and the wiring seems to be in good shape.  Everything was tight during disassembly and the wiring terminals are tight on the wire. 

Can I power this inverter up being disconnected from ac charge board/ charging unit so I can measure the voltage coming out of the transformer or would this damage the cpu or fets?

The 1 pic with circles on it identifies where I had 115v and the red circle is the leg off the transformer that I had 0 volts.  The drawling with the blue lines identifies the 110 input voltage for what should be the charger and Im actually am producing voltage on both them legs.  Yes that is correct on the black and red wire im getting 110.  I had a pic of me measuring this voltage but I cant find it.  I think I attached it to a previous thread on this above.

thanks

sam

also who can I take this to to have this looked at?  Ive call gentery up in michigan but no reply yet

 

[dickson]

I sent video to seller and the engineers looked and it and they can not figure out what is wrong with it and suggest I return it to them for repair.  They are suppose to get back with me on who to send it to seeing how the repair shop in michigan is shut down but they havnt got back yet

 

Previous  post on this forum  say  powerjack  will do  trade  in  for  the  3 boxes 15000 watt  which is  better  but  do not know the cost  .   I  do not see anymore  one  box 15kw  on ebay  .    The  new  design is AMG  but do not know what that  output board  design is like .   

[Sid Genetry Solar]

20 hours ago, Sam said:

Can I power this inverter up being disconnected from ac charge board/ charging unit so I can measure the voltage coming out of the transformer or would this damage the cpu or fets?

Technically, this should provide exactly the same end result as you are currently getting when putting a load on the inverter.

 

20 hours ago, Sam said:

They are suppose to get back with me on who to send it to seeing how the repair shop in michigan is shut down but they havnt got back yet.

Did Power Jack themselves say "the Michigan repair shop is shut down"?

 

20 hours ago, Sam said:

Hey Sid how would I test the regulator and where is it located.

Regulation is entirely handled in the CPU firmware.  The issue would be if the voltage feedback to the CPU is working--if it isn't, that'd be causing the issue.

 

You might want to try swapping the little removable resistor boards (on the output board), and see if they're at fault.  Those are the voltage "feedback" boards.

 

Can't rule out a bad transformer secondary just yet.

 

 

From a much older post...

On 9/14/2021 at 2:55 PM, Sam said:

I contacted supplier I purchased it from and they gave me 2 new cpu boards and drivers and still it does not work.

They sent you CPU boards?  You've got a 10.3 control board, the only replaceable part on the control board is the LF Driver.  What was the other board they provided?

[Sam]

--Here is the message I recieved from seller about taking inverter to the repair shop in Michigan.  I told him seeing how I dont have the boxs I would be willing to take inverter myself to repair shop.  I told him it would be a 3 hour drive and I wanted to make sure someone was there before I made the trip.  That is when he said they are closed.  I have had roughly 25 emails exchanged with this seller trying to get this inverter fixed.

 

Dear Sam

thanks for your mail again

1.our engineer advise you had help all possible test,then we do not know how to guide you to test again,that's why we ask you return to our warehouse for repaire

2.the Michigan repaire center had closed,we'll check with our warehouse for the new repaire center then advise you asap,thanks

have nice weekend

Regards

David

 

--The new boards he gave me are the big green ones that the driver mounts to.  I been calling them cpu or mother boards.  Maybe Im calling them the wrong name.   He also gave me 2 drivers.  There different then the original boards, I believe upgrades?

--I never spoke to powerjack themselves.  Do you have a contact for them so I can explain the situation?  Ive issues since Ive purchased this inverter, the charger never worked and the fans always run all the time, even if its 30 degrees out with hardly any load.

--here is the most recent response I got from seller after I requested were to send for repair a 2nd time

Dear Sam

we send several times parts to you to replace,we pay much money for the parts and postage to you also,we do not wish this status,at first you want to return to exchange to the 25000w mode,then you change the mind and several month later advise the problem again and we send severl times parts to you to replace,it still can not reslove the problem,then you can just return for our repaire,thanks

Regards

David

--He mentions how I wanted to exchange for a 25000watt which is true but I only asked that after I started having problems with it but he wants me to pay 300 to ship inverter to him plus pay full price for a 25000 watt inverter.  I got ebay involved and they said to just keep trying to work it out with seller.   If I have to pay for shipping to china to get this fixed it will cost roughly 5-600 dollars and Id be better off just buying a 25000 watt inverter without a charger.  I actually bought a forklift charger seeing how the charger dont work on this inverter so theres no need for me to get a charger.

 

--I almost feel the problem with this inverter is it is trying to charge the batteries at the same time produce ac voltage.  I could be wrong but seeing how many people have problems with the charger on these im suspect to think thats the issue.

 

--

Here is the seller on ebay

 

User ID powerservice-inverter (Feedback score 10887)

91.5% positive feedback

Items for saleContact

 

Save

Based in Taiwan, powerservice-inverter has been an eBay member since Aug 13, 2008

--Im do not know where the resister boards are that you are refering to.  I can solder and do work like this but would need guidance on this kind of repair.

thanks for the help

 

[dickson]

-I almost feel the problem with this inverter is it is trying to charge the batteries at the same time produce ac voltage.  I could be wrong but seeing how many people have problems with the charger on these im suspect to think thats the issue

 

David  know  just  about all  the problem with  powerjack  inverter on ebay .  David  is  the one told me  to not use charger  .   David  also  get report from  all the other  ebay powerjack seller  about  any  complaint  because  he send me  email when I buy  parts from  other  ebay  powerjack sellers .  Thank you for your report .   I   never  complain to David  .   

[Sid Genetry Solar]

10 hours ago, Sam said:

--Here is the message I recieved from seller about taking inverter to the repair shop in Michigan.  I told him seeing how I dont have the boxs I would be willing to take inverter myself to repair shop.  I told him it would be a 3 hour drive and I wanted to make sure someone was there before I made the trip.  That is when he said they are closed.  I have had roughly 25 emails exchanged with this seller trying to get this inverter fixed.

Well, so I guess they can tell everybody but Sean that they don't want him to do repairs for them any more.  He's figured as much by this point by guessing and hints.........

Sean is most definitely still around.  He wouldn't be compensated by PJ for any repair work (i.e. he'd have to bill you), but he has plenty of spare parts.

Where approximately are you based around?  (Respond via PM if you don't want to say in the forum.  Just curious if you're in the Ohio area.)

 

10 hours ago, Sam said:

--The new boards he gave me are the big green ones that the driver mounts to.  I been calling them cpu or mother boards.  Maybe Im calling them the wrong name.   He also gave me 2 drivers.  There different then the original boards, I believe upgrades?

Those would be "control boards."  If replacing that board did not fix the issue, I would continue to maintain that the issue is on the output AC board (one mounted to the front panel) and/or perhaps the transformer.  Determining which is at fault could likely be determined by use of a 120vAC light bulb (incandescent, preferably).  Connecting it directly to the transformer leads (make sure you get 120v, not 240v!), see if the light bulb gets very bright every time the transformer does the sharp "buzz" ramp.

• If it DOES briefly get very bright at a sharp "buzz" from the transformer, the issue is with the output board with all the wires soldered on random points.
• If the light seems to behave like the tool (i.e. really not getting super bright at each "buzz" from the transformer), then the transformer is at fault.

 

10 hours ago, Sam said:

--I almost feel the problem with this inverter is it is trying to charge the batteries at the same time produce ac voltage.  I could be wrong but seeing how many people have problems with the charger on these im suspect to think thats the issue.

Not possible.  Pretty sure the issue with the voltage coming out of the input terminals is that the inverter output board is seriously miswired and/or the relay is faulty/latched on.  Do not connect any AC input to the inverter with it like this, you'll just fry the FETs.

If the inverter is running in charge mode, it will NOT be producing any AC output.  Charge runs a boost function on the transformer, which will not produce any AC output from the transformer. 

And yes, the charger function is very poorly implemented in software.

 

10 hours ago, Sam said:

--I never spoke to powerjack themselves.  Do you have a contact for them so I can explain the situation?  Ive issues since Ive purchased this inverter, the charger never worked and the fans always run all the time, even if its 30 degrees out with hardly any load.

You probably are speaking to PJ themselves.  They have a lot of different names/stores.

[dickson]

You probably are speaking to PJ themselves.  They have a lot of different names/stores.

 

I  think David  is  the  representive for Powerjack  in the  US  selling on ebay .   It seem David   answer no matter  which  ebay seller  I  ask for information .   I  was  suprise at  first  but it seem  all  complaint  get  back to Powerjack in China .    

[Sam]

Hey Sid thanks and dickson as well, and yes im in NW ohio, Custar ohio to be exact.  Its just 20 min south of bowling green ohio.  

--I did the test with a 120 light bulb as discribed and I checked both legs coming off of transformer.  The light got bright then dimmed down and did this roughly 2 times before the alarm started to sound then I powered off inverter.  I attached a short vid of it.  I guess this rules out the the possibility that the transformer is bad.  Im not sure if the alarm should have sounded though or if it should have kept pulsing. The 3rd leg coming off the transformer is ground and I used the same ground for each test.  I have a earth ground and power company ground attached to case of inverter.

--Also is the out put board another name for ac board?  I attached a pic of what is mounted to the front cover and I believe you said this is the ac board.

--Here is the latest message I recieved from david (PJ).  Before he said I could take it to ups and have them package it and ship it but Im not sure if he will allow that now.  Hopfully we can just fix it.  I do believe he should supply the parts though.

New message from: powerservice-inverter (10,887)

Dear sam pls kindly repackage the power inverter and user manual on orginal carton and return to following our USA warehouse address details,thanks Attn:Mike Varner(U POWER)/Tin Electronics Address:5851 Larue Steiner Rd, ,Theodore, AL 36582,United States Tel:+1-251-444-0999 After you return,pls kindly advise the tracking number details for our ref,we'll check the return parcel delivery then advise you asap,thanks. have nice days Regards David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --  Please let me know what is the next step to getting this repaid and ty very much for your help.   thanks sam

[Sid Genetry Solar]

7 hours ago, Sam said:

--I did the test with a 120 light bulb as discribed and I checked both legs coming off of transformer.  The light got bright then dimmed down and did this roughly 2 times before the alarm started to sound then I powered off inverter.  I attached a short vid of it.  I guess this rules out the the possibility that the transformer is bad.  Im not sure if the alarm should have sounded though or if it should have kept pulsing. The 3rd leg coming off the transformer is ground and I used the same ground for each test.  I have a earth ground and power company ground attached to case of inverter.

Ah, OK, finally got the video to download...

...I meant under load!  Connect the light bulb to the transformer terminals WITH IT CONNECTED to the AC / output board as well.  Then load the inverter down until it starts doing that "warping" sound--and see what the light bulb is doing. 

Passing no-load tests is easy, that's like idling a car.  Putting some load on it is like loading the engine down--that's when you find that the crankshaft bolts weren't tight enough.

If the transformer isn't connected to the AC / output board, it's impossible for the CPU to regulate the output voltage in the first place.

 

Perhaps a better test would be to connect a 120v light bulb directly to an output phase of the transformer (i.e. 120v, not 240v!)...and another one at the output terminals of the inverter where your load is connected.

If they don't match, then there's a hardware problem on the AC / output board.  (The pig's nest of wiring on it haphazardly connected to the board strongly suggests that to be the issue.)  If they DO match, but they aren't brightest when the transformer is at the loudest "buzz" part of the warp, then there's a transformer issue.

P.S. You're a lot closer to me than to Sean.  But Sean has more repair parts than I do 😉