powerjack 24-volt 15000W lfsp inverter new 5-14-2021 manufacture

[dickson]

it seems they are selling or at least offering for sale less of their older style inverters. but they get more confusing in their wiring

The last youtube video  by Sean  say people call  about  a powerjack  manual  on how to  wire  L1  N  L2  and a lot  of PS  inverter are return  because of miss  wired .    The  new   AMG  powerjack  inverter  suppose to make  for less  return  because  it is wired for  120vac  on option A   and    wired  for 240vac on option B  .  There is no  warranty if wired L1  N  L2 but  it can be  wired  L1  N  L2   if you use option B  but do not tell powerjack .   I  do not think Powerjack  know what L1  N  L2  split phase  mean .   It  mean  L1 is 120vac  and L2 is 120vac  to be  perfect balanced  and not  L1 is 116vac and  L2 is 104vac .   It  takes  15 more turns  of wire to make   L2  to  get 116 vac  to match  L1 at 116vac .  They save a lots of wires .  

[pilgrimvalley]

24-volt 15000 watt LF PSW SP specific question:

Can you tell me the transformer voltage of the powerjackASL6.5 transformer? what is the output of the primary winding and what is the output of the secondary winding?  so then i can understand the transformer function a bit better.

this is for the powerjack 15,000 watt LF PSW SP 3 piece 24-volt stainless steel case inverter. the heavy terroidal transformer is in its own separate ss box with 1 cooling fan, the control boards/boards are in the second ss box with 2 fans, and 2 lcd screens are in the 3rd ss box (aka thor's note book).

i have it connected and running on a 5kw lifepo4 battery at present. i hooked it up to only 2 of the DC 24V in put, positive and negative (it has 4 >>> 2 positives and 2 negatives) i taped off the unused positive and negative input terminals. for safety so i do not accidentally short something out. 

thanks in advance! 😎

Edited August 31, 2021 by pilgrimvalley
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[dickson]

what is the output of the secondary winding?

The primary signal IN  is the  input voltage to the transformer primary winding  which come from the  LF driver is  16vac to 18vac .  The  transformer  need  AC  to function .   The  control board  convert the  24v  dc input  to  18vac to the transformer  is what the signal IN  gauge  on the box show  and show the LF driver is working .  The secondary winding  convert the 18vac to  240v ac measure between L1  and  L2  hopefully .   L1  N  should be 120vac  and  L2  N  should  be 120vac .  Can you  show  what you measure  between  L1  N  and between  L2  N  ?     My  ASL9.0 transformer  measure L1  N  is 116vac  and L2 N  is 104vac which is 220vac  .   This is  not good  for  wiring L1  N  L2   because  unbalanced .   That is why  Powerjack do not want people to wire  L1  N  L2  but can be  done if  the ASL6.5  is balanced  120vac  and 240vac .

[pilgrimvalley]

115.8 volts L1 to N; 107.5 volts L2 to N; using tacklife meter on the front of inverter. nothing plugged into inverter right now.

hmmm?

so how would one get L1 and L2 balanced? 

the kitchen stove would be my only 220ac use in the future. not hooked to the offgrid solar yet.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

1 hour ago, pilgrimvalley said:

so how would one get L1 and L2 balanced?

Unfortunately, this is a hardware issue with the way the transformer was wound.  And doubly unfortunately, the low voltage side is on the OUTSIDE.  Technically speaking, if you can extend the "line" wire for the low phase coil, you can add another couple of turns to that wire on the transformer core to raise the voltage. 

Assuming you know how transformers work 😉

[dickson]

Unfortunately, this is a hardware issue with the way the transformer was wound.  And doubly unfortunately, the low voltage side is on the OUTSIDE.  Technically speaking, if you can extend the "line" wire for the low phase coil 

 

Oh no  ,  I  was thinking  ASL6.5 the  L1 is  120vac  and  L2 is  120vac  .   The  low phase  coil  107vac  need  10  to 15 more  turns  to make L2  be 117 vac .   Now  try to  not  use  inductive  load  on L2  like air compressor or  well pump  or  large freezer  or microwave .     I  think Powerjack  save  a lot of  wires  with split phase  being  220vac  instead of 240 vac . 

[dickson]

the kitchen stove would be my only 220ac use in the future

I  use  my  15kw  powerjack   L1  N  L2   in the  winter  running 220v  stove  and  water heater  and portable heater no problem  with  resistive load .      Thank  you for the information  of the ASL6.5  voltages .   

[pilgrimvalley]

still learning about how transformers work; have to look into adding more windings in the future. to balance the transformer. 

next question? i could use more than one 24-volt LF PSW SP inverter on one battery bank.... correct?

and each inverter could run their own specific loads! right now each inverter has its own 24-volt LiFePO4 battery. two are 16cell 272Ah 24-volt batteries at 544Ah. teh 3rd battery i am assembling at present is a 32 cell 1088Ah 24-volt battery. the 16 cell batteries have 13,926.4 Wh potential capacity each (nominal voltage at 3.2 but actually more than that).

the 32 cell 272Ah build will have 27,852.8 Wh potential capacity but actually more than that. each has its own BMS >>> i am using the Electrodacus SBMS0 for the BMS.

i have 4 separate 100 amp ac panels and plenty of breakers. maybe only one inverter would be needed for a 220 volt ac wiring. the other inverters could all be 12 volt wire into 100amp AC breaker boxes.

the intent is to get all off-grid and use as much electric for heating etc in the winter. i believe electric will be the way to go. trying to get away from propane and grid supplied electric.

the inverter is the weak link at the moment. and trying to keep the solar power shed cool has been a struggle this summer, but the weather is starting to change a bit as summer winds down. I open it up at night and morning as much as i can to cool it down. possibly install a small ac unit in the future for the solar power shed where all the inverters and LiFePO4 battery is located (to keep it safe from the curious people).

just killed a bat ---- don't tell the wife!!!

here are the 2/0 baterry cell interconnects >>> waiting for shrink tubing. this is for the 1088Ah battery build! 😎

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by pilgrimvalley
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[Sid Genetry Solar]

10 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

next question? i could use more than one 24-volt LF PSW SP inverter on one battery bank.... correct?

No hesitation, go right ahead 😉

[pilgrimvalley]

excuse any typos i meant 120volt ac but did not see it in a post above not 12 volt. i am not doing any 12 volt all are 24-volt and 48 volt inverters. the blind man tries to find his errors before posting.🤓

not really blind just a poor typist who needs reading glasses but buys 1 dollar cheater glasses at the dollar store!

sorry for any confusion.😎

[Sid Genetry Solar]

10 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

excuse any typos i meant 120volt ac but did not see it in a post above not 12 volt. i am not doing any 12 volt all are 24-volt and 48 volt inverters. the blind man tries to find his errors before posting.🤓

not really blind just a poor typist who needs reading glasses but buys 1 dollar cheater glasses at the dollar store!

sorry for any confusion.😎

You can edit the post...click the 3 dots at the top right of the post, and you should see an "Edit" button among the other options.  (You'll only be able to edit your posts.)

[pilgrimvalley]

you can only edit the posts for a short period of time. possibly 30 minutes or an hour. if you find something after the 30 minutes to 1 hour time limit the 3 dots at the top no longer are there to allow editing. i have made several typos and later found but was not able to edit. there is a time limit to edit and i do not know what that time limit is exactly; but often i type and later find the dumbo typo ... but too late to correct it. 😎

[Sid Genetry Solar]

49 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

you can only edit the posts for a short period of time. possibly 30 minutes or an hour. if you find something after the 30 minutes to 1 hour time limit the 3 dots at the top no longer are there to allow editing. i have made several typos and later found but was not able to edit. there is a time limit to edit and i do not know what that time limit is exactly; but often i type and later find the dumbo typo ... but too late to correct it. 😎

OK. 

[pilgrimvalley]

 Question: What is the purpose of the "power sav" on the switch?

when I put the sweotch in "power sav" position, the voltage gauge bounces back and forth as if looking for a load. when i turned on the multistrip which had a small tool charger and the hamilton beach coffee pot plugged in it would not start the coffee pot or start anything. 

what is the purpose of the "power sav" position?

 to me it does not work because the inverter could not start anything.

when I swithched it back to inverter on or not on the power sav then the  inverter functioned correctly and now the coffee is brewing as i do every day.

thanks all. have a great and relaxing Labor Day weekend! 😎

 

[dickson]

what is the purpose of the "power sav" position

 

The  power sav  is the  OFF position  of the  switch  and will  never  power anything  .     Without  choke  the inverter may use  50  wall just  to  keep  itself  power on with  no load  .   With the  switch in power sav  the inverter  my use   10  wall  with no load  and make your battery  last  a  tiny bit longer .   I  never use power sav  because  I  have  40 thousand  wh lithium ion  battery at 60 v .   

[Sid Genetry Solar]

10 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

 Question: What is the purpose of the "power sav" on the switch?

when I put the sweotch in "power sav" position, the voltage gauge bounces back and forth as if looking for a load. when i turned on the multistrip which had a small tool charger and the hamilton beach coffee pot plugged in it would not start the coffee pot or start anything. 

what is the purpose of the "power sav" position?

 to me it does not work because the inverter could not start anything.

when I swithched it back to inverter on or not on the power sav then the  inverter functioned correctly and now the coffee is brewing as i do every day.

thanks all. have a great and relaxing Labor Day weekend! 😎

 

"Power Sav" is a conceptual idea that doesn't work at all in real life--I've never had it work on a PJ inverter.  Even if it did function, it'll only "see" L1 loads anyway (i.e. L2 loads won't cause the inverter to exit "power save" mode).

Concept is for the inverter to turn off for a few seconds...turn back on to see if there's a load, and if not, turn back off.  If it detects a load, it'll stay ON until the load disappears.  At least that's the original idea.

[pilgrimvalley]

thanks for the replies. i normally always leave the inverters running 24/7 but i am not always using the 15000 watt lf sp psw  inverter yet; as i am still assembling the 32 cell LiFePO4 lishen battery with 272Ah Lishen cells. i made a larger base for it and bought compression rods for the battery compression jig. so in the next couple days i should have the battery assembled. 

the "power sav" really still does not work evidently. thanks for your replies.

[pilgrimvalley]

New question:

if the nominal voltage is 25.6 from a LiFePO4 battery (often closer to 26.8 to 27 volts) will the PSW LF split phase inverter have a cleaner sine wave? hope I am asking that correctly. the reason I ask is I was watching a video of Sean's where he was using a 12-volt power supply built by Sid but the wave form was not so good at 12 volts but was better at 14 volts or so. 

the input Dc voltage from my LiFePO4 batteries is often around 25.9 to 27 volts. I do not have an oscilloscope to check it out.

any input is always appreciated.

thanks

[Sid Genetry Solar]

21 hours ago, pilgrimvalley said:

New question:

if the nominal voltage is 25.6 from a LiFePO4 battery (often closer to 26.8 to 27 volts) will the PSW LF split phase inverter have a cleaner sine wave? hope I am asking that correctly. the reason I ask is I was watching a video of Sean's where he was using a 12-volt power supply built by Sid but the wave form was not so good at 12 volts but was better at 14 volts or so. 

the input Dc voltage from my LiFePO4 batteries is often around 25.9 to 27 volts. I do not have an oscilloscope to check it out.

any input is always appreciated.

thanks

As mentioned elsewhere on the forum, the minimum DC battery voltage for a pure sine wave at no load can easily be determined by calculating the transformer voltage ratio and desired output voltage.

If your inverter has a PJ favorite 18v -> 230v transformer specification, and you want to 240v out...

240 * (18 / 230) = 18.782vAC input required for 240v output at no load.  18.782vAC * [square root of 2 = 1.414] = 26.56v bare minimum input battery voltage for a pure sine wave output.

Any loads will increase this number (also note that due to being 24v, the amperage losses are doubled.)

[pilgrimvalley]

ok thanks for the reply... i am trying to understand the inverter capability more, in relation to my new 32 cell 25.6 nominal volt LiFePO4 battery.

i have it assembled now and the voltage is 27.35 (not yet hooked to the inverter). i have to make the cables to the busbar negatives and cables to the busbar positives. also i will make 4/0 cables from the bus bar to the inverter and add in a 400 amp class T fuse on the positive cable between the busbar and inverter.

i see they are now selling a choke for large loads on the inverter such as motors and such to help protect the mosfets. A bandaid?? 🤔

the 272Ah 32 lishen 3.2-volt LiFePO4 cells are configured in an 4P8S configuration and will have at least 1088Ah as they are said to have over 280Ah.

3.2volts X8cell = 25.6 volts nominal

25.6 nominal volts x 272 Ah per cell = 6963.2 Wh

6963.2 Wh X 4 (as there are 4 in parallel) = 27,852.8 Wh battery. 😎

i do not think the amperage loss will be much of an issue. but i am not sure of all the small details as i am not an electrical engineer. any explantion is always appreciated!!

here is a picture of the 32 cell 4P8S battery I connected yesterday. the positive is on the right end and the negaative is on the left end. the parallel connections were made 1st, then the series connections. it was at 27.35 volts yesterday at about 5pm. i had to put extensions on the multimeter leads to measure the positive and negative on the 1st row to 8th row as it ia about 63 inches long. 

[pilgrimvalley]

the ( $13.97 including shipping)24-volt 5500 rpm Delta fan showed up in the mailbox. could have been there any day this week as only checked the mailbox today September 10th. ordered on august 26th so it came fast! 😎

mailbox is at end of 100 plus yard driveway and only check when i am going somewhere.

not progress today as had to run errands , it will be a few days before i can hook it up to the bigger 32 cell LiFePO4 battery.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

On 9/10/2021 at 8:30 PM, pilgrimvalley said:

the ( $13.97 including shipping)24-volt 5500 rpm Delta fan showed up in the mailbox. could have been there any day this week as only checked the mailbox today September 10th. ordered on august 26th so it came fast!

Have to admit that my last two FFB1248 Delta fans burned out just before I was headed out the door to drive to Sean's place a few days ago (after about 1.5 years of service).  Smelled terrible--and delayed my trip half an hour to replace them with proper GS fans with a wide input voltage range.  (I originally had 3 Delta FFB1248EHE fans, and one of them burned out a few months after I put it in service.)

The listed voltage on those Delta fans is no joke.  If it's listed to a max of 26.5v, it will be prone to random failure if taken past that...

[pilgrimvalley]

in previous videos, Sean recomended the delta fans. now does he need to do a correction or a retraction to his YouTube videos or what? I previously bought 48-volt delta fans for the 48 volt inverters,and now a 24-volt delta fan for this 15000 watt 24-volt inverter..

I just ordered 48 and 72 inch 3 pin fan wire extensions from the coolerguys.

I could get a buck converter to control the voltage to slightly below 24 volts from the LiFePo4 batteries because the LifePO4 battery is likely to always be higher than 25 volts and run up over 26.6 volts a lot of the time..

thanks for you warning of the bad experience with the delta fans. i could avoid the bad smell if i am lucky and decrease the input voltage a bit ....maybe.???? i can wire the delta fan circuit direct from the LiFePO4 battery. i have some led lights wired that way. with a small dc breaker for the on/off switch.

I made(quantity 😎 10 inch 2/0 cables today(actually 11.625 inches center of hole to center of hole) and added heat shrink. for the main positive and man negative out of the 32 cell LiFePO4 battery build. as always a different size bolt was needed so a trip to Menards to get some 1/4 inch ss bolts and washers and nuts for the 2/0 cable with 1/4 inch lug holes. the lock washers were the most expensive part 8 of them for $1.79. go figure.😥

I made 4 for the positive to busbar and 4 for the negative to the busbar.

then I will hook up a 400 amp class T fuse to the positive using 4/0 cable s from the bus bar to the inverter. 😎

any ideas????.

how much did a 400 amp breaker cost that is dc rated?

I bet it was a fortune!

[Sid Genetry Solar]

58 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

how much did a 400 amp breaker cost that is dc rated?

Roughly $80, "new" on eBay.  Search "GJ1P", that's the breaker series.

[Sid Genetry Solar]

59 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

in previous videos, Sean recomended the delta fans. now does he need to do a correction or a retraction to his YouTube videos or what? I previously bought 48-volt delta fans for the 48 volt inverters,and now a 24-volt delta fan for this 15000 watt 24-volt inverter..

They were good, and it took us awhile to start having problems with them.  I previously could recommend them, until having them fail when taken 3v past the max rated value.  We live and learn.