powerjack 24-volt 15000W lfsp inverter new 5-14-2021 manufacture

[dickson]

If the surge amps are too high for the FETs, the inverter likely will blow up.  No surge protection as in, there's no way to instantaneously shut down if a short-circuit condition is detected

Sid is  completely  right  and  I   did  blow up  all  48  FETS (now only 1 mainboard)  when I  just  got  delivery over a year ago  and  see  what happen  when  I  restart  with the  FETS and transformer  too HOT  .    That  why I wait  2 hours  because  there  is no  warning  when the FETS  will blow out  along  with the LF driver  .   

[pilgrimvalley]

if I wire L1 L2 and neutral to a 100 amp rated breaker box then it should be able to do either 120 or 240 at the same time. correct? i am not hooking it to the grid at all. most things i use are 120 but the kitchen stove is 220 and the oven is 220 and the electric dryer. the welder is 220 but may not hook that up to this. i have a generator i could run the welder on if i needed it.

it is rather confusing when they say you cant do 

Note: can not L1+N+L2 at the same time!!! 

 

[dickson]

if I wire L1 L2 and neutral to a 100 amp rated breaker box then it should be able to do either 120 or 240 at the same time.

 

Yes  and do not forget the ground  so there will be 4  wires to the main service box  and  make sure grid power is  OFF .   I  do this  in the winter  and run  the top of stove but not the oven and the microwave and  the refrigerator and the freezer and  all the lights and  (the 220 vac hot waterheater  for one hour)  at the same time  but not the washer or  dryer  or my 240 vac welder or 240vac heatpump .    Hard wire #6 awg  to the  main service entrance  from the inverter 3 terminals L1  N  L2   and ground terminal  and do not use the  outlet  on the box .    Use  a 50 amp  transfer  switch  like   the one for generator  or some other  way  on youtube .  

[Sid Genetry Solar]

1 hour ago, pilgrimvalley said:

if I wire L1 L2 and neutral to a 100 amp rated breaker box then it should be able to do either 120 or 240 at the same time. correct? i am not hooking it to the grid at all. most things i use are 120 but the kitchen stove is 220 and the oven is 220 and the electric dryer. the welder is 220 but may not hook that up to this. i have a generator i could run the welder on if i needed it.

it is rather confusing when they say you cant do 

Note: can not L1+N+L2 at the same time!!! 

 

Yes, it is highly confusing.  I could make several guesses as to why/what, but at the end of the day electrical reality is what will prevail...

I can tell you that the center-tapped secondary of the transformer is going to handle any set of split loads.  (L1 - N - L2).  That's how I wired up my 9k PJ when I first got it (and it still runs that way, although the only PJ parts left are the mainboard and chassis!), and how most users will wire it up.

Possible reasons why PJ would put up that note:

• Overcurrent protection is only on L1 (deductively, L1 - N for 120v and L1 - L2 for 240v)
• LCD "meter" reading is only on L1 (for 240v) and N (for 120v)

Pulling from the L2 - N circuit won't have any overcurrent protection (for what little good it does), nor will such a load register on the LCDs.  But it'll still work.

 

[dickson]

Yes, it is highly confusing.  I could make several guesses as to why/what, but at the end of the day electrical reality is what will prevail

What Sid say is  correct  with the  PJ  inverter .   PJ  probably  say  do not  L1  N  L2  for  liability  or  possible lawsuit if people wired wrong using the  3  terminals  .  They want people to use the provided  outlets .   Wiring for  RV  is different  than  for  the house  main service entrance  as RV  do not  have  a ground  so is bonded  to the  neutral of the  inverter  but  RV  when  connected to  shorepower will  have the neutral  bonded  to the shore .   Let say  someone  use a sudicide  cord  connected to  a older house  with  3 wires  L1 and L2  and  ground  .   His house  will  burn down .   Must connect  4 wires  with   neutral to the house  to be  safe  or use  GFCI  like  someone with RV  in this forum .    

[pilgrimvalley]

there is no transfer switch as it is strictly off-grid. the new 100 amp box will not be connected to the grid in any way. i have utilized many gas generators at my pilgrim valley mountain home and wore out 3-4 of them. i do not like the noisy gas or diesel geneators so this build is strictly with solar panels and LiFePO4 batteries. i do have 2 generators here but the intent is not to use them. right now only utilizing 120 volt things. but plan to wire more up on the ac side with all power coming from inverters. i do utilize some 24-volt led lights and 24-volt pumps that will get powered direct from the battery and not need the inverter. on the pilgrimvalley mountain farm(Bolivia South America) everything is 240 volt single phase. but here in the USA i am using the standard 120 volt and 240 volt equipment. currently cleaning up the solar power shed to get more space to organize wiring, etc. it is always amazing how your space fills up. more later but thanks all for all your help.

 

[dickson]

there is no transfer switch as it is strictly off-grid. the new 100 amp box will not be connected to the grid in any way

 

You  will  have L1  N  L2  to the 100 amp breaker box  but the  breaker metal case  and   neutral  will be  bonded  to the  inverter ground  and  a 8 feet ground rod .  
240 vac  single  phase  will have L1  L2  and  ground  but  no neutral  so no  120 vac  .   You  will  need an  autotransformer  to  make  120vac in Bolivia  .   I  still do not know if you live in the US  or Bolivia  or both  place .   The  PJ  will  work  if wired correctly in the  US  or Bolivia   but  will  blow up the FETS  or worst  if misswired  .       

[pilgrimvalley]

it seems to read if you hook up the grid then the inverter will work 1st until the battery is too low then the charger will atomatically kick in. for my purposes i will not connect to the grid at all and will not use the charging function so the way they worrd things is vewry confusing. but read it 3 times and let it soak in. if they had a good english writer for their manual and online descriptions it would help a lot! hire out to them sid. they wont steel your ideas!

i am not using the chatge or ats functions. only the inverter functions. still wonder what it will do as far as load but time and tersting will tell. 

this inverter is said to have 30000 watt surge capability. cant imagine going that high but even if it surged up to 15000 watts without an issue it would likely do what i need it to do.

i plan to hook it up to a 30,000 watt hour 24-volt lifepo4 battery that is going to be 1088 amp. hopefully i worded that correctly.

making cables to test it on a smaller LiFePO4 battery now.

 

[Sid Genetry Solar]

12 minutes ago, pilgrimvalley said:

it seems to read if you hook up the grid then the inverter will work 1st until the battery is too low then the charger will atomatically kick in. for my purposes i will not connect to the grid at all and will not use the charging function so the way they worrd things is vewry confusing. but read it 3 times and let it soak in. if they had a good english writer for their manual and online descriptions it would help a lot! hire out to them sid. they wont steel your ideas!

Well, the inverter could (should) have an ATS/UPS switch, but seeing as there are no settings that can be adjusted...these functions are of comparatively little value.

Their inverter needs a solid redesign...hardware, manual and all 😉.

[dickson]

i am not using the chatge or ats functions. only the inverter functions. still wonder what it will do as far as load but time and tersting will tell. 

this inverter is said to have 30000 watt surge capability. cant imagine going that high but even if it surged up to 15000 watts without an issue it would likely do what i need it to do.

Good to NOT  use charge or ats function .  My  max load is  6100 watts for one hour   and   4500 watts  for 18 hours  till the  battery drop to  46 volts in the winter with no  240  volt ac  appliance .    My   4 ton heat pump surge is 28000 watts  for less than one second  so  a surge  of 15000 watts for one  second is no problem  but  a well  pump  surge  of  15000 watts for 5 seconds may  not start  .    Your  new design  with separate  ASL 6.5  transformer   may do better .  

LiFePO4  battery  is  10 times  better  and safer than  used ev car lithium battery  that I now use .  

[dickson]

Their inverter needs a solid redesign...hardware, manual and all 

That not going to happen  as long  as  PJ  seem to  sell   every new  inverters  and even rebuit  inverter  on ebay  .   Now  selling  transformer  also .   Seem like the more people  who  mis wire or miss load  their PJ   the  more money  PJ   makes selling parts on ebay  .     I   did at  one  time  sell a lot of   linux  laptops  because  microsoft  do not  allow me  to sell  window 10  installed  on  ebay  .       

[pilgrimvalley]

yes it has a separate ats ups switch with input (ups label on top of it and ats label on the bottom of it). but i will not be using the charge function from the grid.

have you seen or used any of these 3 piece 24-volt asl 6.5 inverters. all in Stainless steel cases.

i do think the long cables with 7 pin connectors with screw down nut attachment may be somewhat useful to nount the 2 lcd screens a bit higher for better viewing of the Thor's notebook. but it is definitely a bit different.

[pilgrimvalley]

i started looking at linus operating systems a bit as microsoft 11 may become the monopoly nightmare and not compatible with older computers. i have built and upgraded computers for many years but always issues with hardware compatibilities.

perhaps powerjack is improving their new designs --- i hope. 

cant compete with the low china taiwan wages. let alone the huge shipping costs. inflation is killing the usa right now. who else can ship a 160 pound 20,000 watt 48 volt inverter 3 times for 700 dollars. they paid to ship it to . paid to return it to sean, then paid to ship me a new one from china. the shipping would eat you alive in the usa. let alone the parts. i bought it in ebay at auction. then had to wait about 3 months for them to nanufacture a new improved version. (but a tangent) not related to this new 3 piece 24-volt 15000 watt powerjack asl 6.5 inverter. just a story. 

[pilgrimvalley]

this build is being done in south dakota. 

 

[dickson]

have you seen or used any of these 3 piece 24-volt asl 6.5 inverters. all in Stainless steel cases

NO   I  base  that  the ASL6.5  is a good transformer  on the calculation   that on  a 48 v ASL6.5  PJ  the 30vac  to  240vac  winding of the transformer is better than 36vac  .   The  24 v ASL 6.5  PJ  may be 15 vac to  240vac  .    This should  make the inverter run cooler  I  think  but do not know  till  you do some test.  

[dickson]

this build is being done in south dakota

Thank you  then  heat will  not be a problem  for your  inverter  .    Because of  high  outside temperture  I  can only run my 15kw  at most 4 hours in summer  like now  118 degree F .   

[pilgrimvalley]

yes the heat is an issue in the summer here in south dakota as my power shed has got up to 90 degrees F inside. running fan and 2 inverters continuously. been looking at ac for it. it is very well inulated solar powershed but small 8feetx8feetx8feet. 85 degrees inside of it right now.

 

[dickson]

yes the heat is an issue in the summer here in south dakota

Then  I  would  get  Delta fans on ebay  to replace  all the PJ fans .    I  leave  my  Delta fans on high  all  the  times  during the summer .    I  plan to get the new GS12000 watts  inverter  to  run  a portable  14000 watts  AC  to cool  the GS  inverter  with cardboard duct work  and also  run the 4 ton heatpump  probably  have to wait till next summer . 

My delta fan are all  12vdc  run from  a  12v  car battery  with  a   120vac car  charger on at the same time .  

[pilgrimvalley]

i have delta fans but have not utilized them yet. the two inverters currently running 24/7 are 24-volt inverters 6000Wattt and 8000 watt sp psw and they have never shut down. now there will be a 3rd 24-volt inverter soon. the powershed could use a bit of cooling inside. my main concern was superinsulating it before last winter when it got down to 25 degreesbelow zero outside with wind. it stated above 50 degrees in side with a single light bulb runninin off the inverter. an ac would help inside but have not got that issue cured yet. 

lifepo4 batteries do better if it is not too hot. i have been monitoring it daily. 

the inverters would likely do better if it was not 85 or 90 degrees inside the solar power shed, but one thing at a time ( yea hahaha) usualy 5 things going on at once it never fails.

[pilgrimvalley]

one thing i notice is all the screws are bigger than in previous powerjack inverters, and the transformer hold down bracket now has 2 bolts per hold down point so it now has 8 bolts holding down the bracket to the asl6.5 terroidal lf transformer. the transformer box is a heavy one. as per the picture in the ebay listing i did put the transformer box on top of the control box when hooking it up the control box has two fans and the transformer box has one fan. so it seems they are trying to keep the mosfets cooler in the control box. they also sent double wires to connect the control box and transformer so i think i will double them up. this inverter has circuit breakers vs fuses so that is another improvement. i am still investigating it. 

the sheep got out so had to remedy that and scored 2 free self propelled lawnmowers and 2 4x6 double pane windows so did not get all wired up.

i did build a mounting board for a positive and negative busbar so i can hooh all to the invereter and charging souuce and the lifepo4 battery bank.more easily and more organized and of course a bit more safely. 24-volt is considered a safe working voltage worldwide and has less requirements from your local yocals. that is another reason this is a 24-volt build. 

also hydraulically crimped a few copper cables. still need to shrink wrap the ends. slow but sure. maybe more slow than sure!

more updates tomorrow maybe.

i also mounted it on top of an old steel cabinet with a particle board top covered in formica. then i put that on top of a harbor freight 18x30 inch movindg dolly so i can swirl it around in any direction for connecting all necessary wires. the battery willl be connected to the heeavy busbar with an anderson style plug. all these little details slow you up assembling but make it all better in the end.

 i will use 4/0 cables to the inverter to the main positive and main negative bus bar. stilll need the class t fuse ( the catastrophy fuse to handle the high power from the LIFePO4 batttery). a safety thing for sure.

please forgive any typos as i need glasses and this laptop in th solar power shed is a small screen.😎 

Edited July 14, 2021 by pilgrimvalley

[pilgrimvalley]

it has 2 positive and 2 negative posts for 24 volt input. positives are above the negatives. i wish they were side by sis --- the other orientation to avoid shorting issue potential better.

they appear to be conneted in parallel inside. so bothe positives are hooked together. and both negatives are hooked together.

would 2 cables be better? i am using 1 4/0 cable to positive and 1 4/0 cable to the negative.

[dickson]

would 2 cables be better? i am using 1 4/0 cable to positive and 1 4/0 cable to the negative

 

Yes  2 cables  4/0  and I  tape  the other  pos and neg post  not  use  .    

[pilgrimvalley]

i taped the red one on the other 2 inverter with only one post for 24-volt input. i would not think one would need to put a cable on each of the 4 input posts. probably more for powerjack use to be able to use smaller machine rated wire inside the 3 piece 24-volt inverter (15,000watt LF PSW SplitPhase) . thanks for your replies. yes the tape and isolation between all that power is very important. i shorted the 24-volt battery build early on in 2020 so it set me back and made me a lot more careful. it was like a welder and ruined a stud on the LiFePO4 battery. it made me do thing a bit differently. i label all positive battery posts with red tape and used a label maker to make positive label for them as well. 

thanks, got the 4/0 cables made and shrink wrapped, and all bolted down to the bus bar. have to check a few connections before i turn it in. the battery has a on off switch and the inverter has an on off switch so all is off at the moment.. but man it is hot and humid today had an inch or two of rain overnight. good but humid now at 90 degrees in the solar power shed. all done with off-grid electricity. the heat gun added heat that was not needed inside today.

Thanks for the tape off the unused post comment. always a good reminder to me. thanks again.

[pilgrimvalley]

Yesterday, I got the15,000 watt LF PSW split phase Powerjack inverter all connected to the heavy-duty busbar with 4/0 hydraulically crimped cables and shrink wrapped them with red and black adhesive lined shrink wrap for easy colr coding. all exposed terminals were taped up for safety in case something was accidentally dropped. dont short nothing. no no no.

fired up the inverter to run the small 120 volt fan. for a small test.

 it is hooke to a 5kW lifepo4 battery for test but will ultimately be hooked to a much larger capacity lifepo4 battery. 

thor's notebook registerd ok as far as i can tell. ithink i would like to mount that at eye level up on the wall or beneath a wall shelf in the solar power shed.

more later in a few days, but at least it did not let the smoke out. 

will do a load test with bigger battery.

i shut it down over night and then turned it back on this morning. again no problems with the very small test load. so far so good... thank to the lord.

dc voltage definitely has my respect.

all done with off-grid generated electricity.

off grid coffee time .... bye bye 😎

Edited July 15, 2021 by pilgrimvalley
add information

[dickson]

thor's notebook registerd ok as far as i can tell. ithink i would like to mount that at eye level up on the wall

 

Good to  know  the  inverter is working good .    My inverter is always on harbor freight  mover cart  just off the floor  .    I   like  to get a used  ASL6.5  transformer  to make a test bench   to test  FET  and  LF driver  and  control board   for  my spare  PJ   parts   before  connecting to my   working  15kw  PJ  .   If  I   install a bad  ebay  PJ parts   to  my  working  PJ  inverter  to test   sometime it  will  blow up  all  24  FET  that   was  working  but not  anymore  .     I  never tell the seller  or I will probably  be block from  ebay  .