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We will not have a "15 KW" per se. We are not following Power Jacks line of numbering. Our 12KW inverter should be capable of 24V. I say "Should" because we have not been able to test that as of now. We are mostly convinced it will be possible but it may also lower the output if the ambient temps are a bit higher.

We currently do not have any plans for a "15kw unit as the size and weight would exceed standard shipping practices. While I am not counting out the possibility, it is currently not planned.

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Our lineup is planned around multiples...1.5k, 3k, 6k, and 12k.  Have to remember that 12kw @ 24v is literally 500A without losses.  Expect >550A at full load output due to losses.

12kw inverter will support 24, 36, 48, and (maybe) 60v.  I say maybe, because the absolute maximum internal voltage is 75v, same as the cooling fans.  Might be for special purposes only.

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13 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Our lineup is planned around multiples...1.5k, 3k, 6k, and 12k.  Have to remember that 12kw @ 24v is literally 500A without losses.  Expect >550A at full load output due to losses.

12kw inverter will support 24, 36, 48, and (maybe) 60v.  I say maybe, because the absolute maximum internal voltage is 75v, same as the cooling fans.  Might be for special purposes only.

So next up is a 24K unit, right? 😉 4 3/0 cables per side should do it at 24Volts.

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14 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Ha.  Not planning for that just yet.  That would require freight shipping, and a completely separate approach.  1200A+...I think it's time to drop 24v 😉

 

You haven't lived till you get to play with that kind of current. I only got to do it at 480VAC and 600VDC. Both were live at the time I was working with the cables and breakers/fuses.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Oh I got my inverter back up and running with a spare test board...quite annoying, but at least now I know what not to do.

Sean's had a rough day trying to get the problems worked out of the 12kw inverter--because whatever fix works in that one should be a perfect fix for the 6kw inverters.  Probably we'll just have to forget about fixing up the 12kw for a bit, and just get the 6kw units running as clean as we can before shipping them out.

It's going to take more than a couple of days to get all 25 inverters fully assembled and ready to send out.  They're probably 80% complete when we get them...the last 20% of work has to be done here in the States before they can be sent out.

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4 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Oh I got my inverter back up and running with a spare test board...quite annoying, but at least now I know what not to do.

Sean's had a rough day trying to get the problems worked out of the 12kw inverter--because whatever fix works in that one should be a perfect fix for the 6kw inverters.  Probably we'll just have to forget about fixing up the 12kw for a bit, and just get the 6kw units running as clean as we can before shipping them out.

It's going to take more than a couple of days to get all 25 inverters fully assembled and ready to send out.  They're probably 80% complete when we get them...the last 20% of work has to be done here in the States before they can be sent out.

I thought the 6k wasn't really having any issue, as far as driving everything.  Not sure how many bought enough to daisy chain them or not, I know I bought two to daisy chain.  Which you showed on your Frankenstein Rig.   I think the main issue is that Tranny on the 12k is most likely have a high resistance, then the 6k tranny, and causing the mosfet to over heat cause they are having a harder time pushing the power.  But, that my thoughts 😛  I'm not the expert by no means.  *grin*

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7 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said:

I thought the 6k wasn't really having any issue, as far as driving everything.

For practical purposes, yes.  The guess right now is that the higher tranny resistance on the 6kw is sorta helping.  But the issue is still present...we just need to do the best we can to filter it out.

7 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said:

I think the main issue is that Tranny on the 12k is most likely have a high resistance, then the 6k tranny, and causing the mosfet to over heat cause they are having a harder time pushing the power. 

The issue is not a load one.  The problem is that an "off-state" MOSFET is getting briefly turned ON several hundred times per AC wave by EMI/spikes induced in the wiring/design...which is causing it to burn up considerable heat by wasting battery power.  Very easy to see on a 'scope.  The greater the load, the worse this EMI is, which is kinda a big clue...

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1 hour ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

For practical purposes, yes.  The guess right now is that the higher tranny resistance on the 6kw is sorta helping.  But the issue is still present...we just need to do the best we can to filter it out.

The issue is not a load one.  The problem is that an "off-state" MOSFET is getting briefly turned ON several hundred times per AC wave by EMI/spikes induced in the wiring/design...which is causing it to burn up considerable heat by wasting battery power.  Very easy to see on a 'scope.  The greater the load, the worse this EMI is, which is kinda a big clue...

Don't waste too much time looking for electrical ghosts, because very often the problem is mechanical. I once had a poor drain connection to a FET where the case tab was supplied by a live heatsink. It looked a lot like EMI on a scope. My boss went to looking for filtering solutions. I put my finger on the FET to feel for heat, and it sparked at the tab and screw. One and a half screw turns later, the heat problem was gone. I've even had to gently lap the surface of some FETs on sand paper to get a clean surface and have satisfactory electrical and thermal connection.

Wouldn't it be crazy if all your problems went away if Sean torqued all the heatsink screws to spec?

Edited by InPhase
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3 minutes ago, InPhase said:

Wouldn't it be crazy if all your problems went away if Sean torqued all the heatsink screws to spec?

I wish that was the problem.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be.  I can see it on every inverter I have--just on the smaller ones, the issue is small enough that it doesn't matter.  PJ got away with it by having such a weak LF Driver that the FETs can't "slam" the tranny against the power rails--eliminating the EMI.  But the rounded drive waves cause significant FET heating--or blowing up at high loads, when their resistive "window" has more resistance than the tranny primary...

My experiments with ferrite beads on certain wires on the ribbon cable have thus far been completely successful at eliminating the noise on every inverter I've tested down here--but alas, they haven't exactly translated too well to Sean's bench with the 12kw...

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So, the Mosfets is a AC Power?, and I can see the beads helping, because on high power lines, the closer they are and the higher the power the more you can have a magnetic induced electrical field that can bleed to anything around it, hence why they use glass insulators to keep anything from shorting out so easy.  Is it the rainbow calbe?  It would be nice if you could just make a board with pins to slot the main to the wifi and get rid of the cable all together. be funny, have a PCI slot on the main board, and on the wifi board on the lid, it has a card facing down that goins into the pci slot or pin terminal and then the lid get screwed down to hold it together, elemenating darn wires.

 

Just my thoughts 😛

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39 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

So, the Mosfets is a AC Power?, and I can see the beads helping, because on high power lines, the closer they are and the higher the power the more you can have a magnetic induced electrical field that can bleed to anything around it, hence why they use glass insulators to keep anything from shorting out so easy.  Is it the rainbow calbe?  It would be nice if you could just make a board with pins to slot the main to the wifi and get rid of the cable all together. be funny, have a PCI slot on the main board, and on the wifi board on the lid, it has a card facing down that goins into the pci slot or pin terminal and then the lid get screwed down to hold it together, elemenating darn wires.

 

Just my thoughts 😛

Yeah, but the signals have to go about 3.5 inches from the mainboard to the control board--at best.  I've considered using long pin standoffs to directly connect the 2 PCBs--but they're unshielded, and would make a significant (unnecessary) design challenge.

We'll have to do something with a custom specialized cable and/or PCB design to resolve this issue (yes the ribbon cable is a large part of the issue.  Ribbon cables are for carrying data signals, not power!)  But hey, getting this far alone has been an exercise in solving issues--so I'm not giving up.

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8 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said:

So does it get worse with lower voltage?  Most every demo Sean showes is at 48v.  Is 24V going to make things worse?

Don't think so.  Higher voltages seem to make it slightly worse--not surprising, I suppose, if slew rate is considered.

8 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said:

I just watch his Vid just now, and I've yet got a email. . .

One man vs 1,800lbs of inverters and a 7-page setup manual for each inverter...yeah, he isn't Superman yet.  If he could do one inverter per hour--and doesn't answer his phone or any emails, no distractions, nothing for anyone else--that's going to take him over 3 full 8-hour workdays to get 'em all done.  Much safer to figure 2-3 hours per unit.  But at least we have them.

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I think I'm going to run the Master off of the Lithium  Batt bank and the slave is going to run off the 8 deep cycle confg to 24v.  Since the slave at the most will run about 30 min on a high load, that longest will be 2 hours I guess if I'm pushing running the dryer and the water heater kicks on while I'm cooking a pizza.

 

Right now I'm sitting at 13k just sitting int he room waiting to get used.  I will add probley another 7k to it shortly, but I think the slave should be fine off of the 4s lead deep cycle.  Rougly 200 ahm so that give me about 4.8kwh  Might buy a few more if it can't hold up.

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Firmware is decently usable, probably will need some refinement and tweaking, but the functions--for the most part--seem to be good to go.

Fixes just need another little check from me...but that's a lot harder now that I'm back to work full time on a huge house project.  Gotta pay the bills somehow.

We are hoping the inverters will ship by Friday.

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