ask first Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Are there plans to build a 24v 15kw inverter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Genetry Solar Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 We will not have a "15 KW" per se. We are not following Power Jacks line of numbering. Our 12KW inverter should be capable of 24V. I say "Should" because we have not been able to test that as of now. We are mostly convinced it will be possible but it may also lower the output if the ambient temps are a bit higher. We currently do not have any plans for a "15kw unit as the size and weight would exceed standard shipping practices. While I am not counting out the possibility, it is currently not planned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Our lineup is planned around multiples...1.5k, 3k, 6k, and 12k. Have to remember that 12kw @ 24v is literally 500A without losses. Expect >550A at full load output due to losses. 12kw inverter will support 24, 36, 48, and (maybe) 60v. I say maybe, because the absolute maximum internal voltage is 75v, same as the cooling fans. Might be for special purposes only. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterman Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 13 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: Our lineup is planned around multiples...1.5k, 3k, 6k, and 12k. Have to remember that 12kw @ 24v is literally 500A without losses. Expect >550A at full load output due to losses. 12kw inverter will support 24, 36, 48, and (maybe) 60v. I say maybe, because the absolute maximum internal voltage is 75v, same as the cooling fans. Might be for special purposes only. So next up is a 24K unit, right? 😉 4 3/0 cables per side should do it at 24Volts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Ha. Not planning for that just yet. That would require freight shipping, and a completely separate approach. 1200A+...I think it's time to drop 24v 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ask first Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 I see you have a 5000w continuous and 20k surge, is that may be just enough to run my 30k BTU. I have the Powerjack 8000w 12k surge right now but not from genetry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 The 6kw inverter can run 6,000w continuous; the surge limit has not been characterized, but it should easily be able to do a 12kw surge, if not higher. If your PJ inverter can run the 2.5-ton A/C, I guarantee you a GS can run it...and run it better 😁. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ask first Posted February 16, 2021 Author Share Posted February 16, 2021 is that the one for $999? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Yes, that is the 6kw inverter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waterman Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 14 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: Ha. Not planning for that just yet. That would require freight shipping, and a completely separate approach. 1200A+...I think it's time to drop 24v 😉 You haven't lived till you get to play with that kind of current. I only got to do it at 480VAC and 600VDC. Both were live at the time I was working with the cables and breakers/fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 So any update on our Poor Human Error Fix? 😛 Just got in from work and see there is no update, not even one video from sean. I figured he would had 3 vids up bragging at how dasy chaining and show off the pile of inverters waiting to go out his back door to out younder. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 Oh I got my inverter back up and running with a spare test board...quite annoying, but at least now I know what not to do. Sean's had a rough day trying to get the problems worked out of the 12kw inverter--because whatever fix works in that one should be a perfect fix for the 6kw inverters. Probably we'll just have to forget about fixing up the 12kw for a bit, and just get the 6kw units running as clean as we can before shipping them out. It's going to take more than a couple of days to get all 25 inverters fully assembled and ready to send out. They're probably 80% complete when we get them...the last 20% of work has to be done here in the States before they can be sent out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 4 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: Oh I got my inverter back up and running with a spare test board...quite annoying, but at least now I know what not to do. Sean's had a rough day trying to get the problems worked out of the 12kw inverter--because whatever fix works in that one should be a perfect fix for the 6kw inverters. Probably we'll just have to forget about fixing up the 12kw for a bit, and just get the 6kw units running as clean as we can before shipping them out. It's going to take more than a couple of days to get all 25 inverters fully assembled and ready to send out. They're probably 80% complete when we get them...the last 20% of work has to be done here in the States before they can be sent out. I thought the 6k wasn't really having any issue, as far as driving everything. Not sure how many bought enough to daisy chain them or not, I know I bought two to daisy chain. Which you showed on your Frankenstein Rig. I think the main issue is that Tranny on the 12k is most likely have a high resistance, then the 6k tranny, and causing the mosfet to over heat cause they are having a harder time pushing the power. But, that my thoughts 😛 I'm not the expert by no means. *grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 7 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said: I thought the 6k wasn't really having any issue, as far as driving everything. For practical purposes, yes. The guess right now is that the higher tranny resistance on the 6kw is sorta helping. But the issue is still present...we just need to do the best we can to filter it out. 7 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said: I think the main issue is that Tranny on the 12k is most likely have a high resistance, then the 6k tranny, and causing the mosfet to over heat cause they are having a harder time pushing the power. The issue is not a load one. The problem is that an "off-state" MOSFET is getting briefly turned ON several hundred times per AC wave by EMI/spikes induced in the wiring/design...which is causing it to burn up considerable heat by wasting battery power. Very easy to see on a 'scope. The greater the load, the worse this EMI is, which is kinda a big clue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InPhase Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sid Genetry Solar said: For practical purposes, yes. The guess right now is that the higher tranny resistance on the 6kw is sorta helping. But the issue is still present...we just need to do the best we can to filter it out. The issue is not a load one. The problem is that an "off-state" MOSFET is getting briefly turned ON several hundred times per AC wave by EMI/spikes induced in the wiring/design...which is causing it to burn up considerable heat by wasting battery power. Very easy to see on a 'scope. The greater the load, the worse this EMI is, which is kinda a big clue... Don't waste too much time looking for electrical ghosts, because very often the problem is mechanical. I once had a poor drain connection to a FET where the case tab was supplied by a live heatsink. It looked a lot like EMI on a scope. My boss went to looking for filtering solutions. I put my finger on the FET to feel for heat, and it sparked at the tab and screw. One and a half screw turns later, the heat problem was gone. I've even had to gently lap the surface of some FETs on sand paper to get a clean surface and have satisfactory electrical and thermal connection. Wouldn't it be crazy if all your problems went away if Sean torqued all the heatsink screws to spec? Edited March 12, 2021 by InPhase Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 3 minutes ago, InPhase said: Wouldn't it be crazy if all your problems went away if Sean torqued all the heatsink screws to spec? I wish that was the problem. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be. I can see it on every inverter I have--just on the smaller ones, the issue is small enough that it doesn't matter. PJ got away with it by having such a weak LF Driver that the FETs can't "slam" the tranny against the power rails--eliminating the EMI. But the rounded drive waves cause significant FET heating--or blowing up at high loads, when their resistive "window" has more resistance than the tranny primary... My experiments with ferrite beads on certain wires on the ribbon cable have thus far been completely successful at eliminating the noise on every inverter I've tested down here--but alas, they haven't exactly translated too well to Sean's bench with the 12kw... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 So, the Mosfets is a AC Power?, and I can see the beads helping, because on high power lines, the closer they are and the higher the power the more you can have a magnetic induced electrical field that can bleed to anything around it, hence why they use glass insulators to keep anything from shorting out so easy. Is it the rainbow calbe? It would be nice if you could just make a board with pins to slot the main to the wifi and get rid of the cable all together. be funny, have a PCI slot on the main board, and on the wifi board on the lid, it has a card facing down that goins into the pci slot or pin terminal and then the lid get screwed down to hold it together, elemenating darn wires. Just my thoughts 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 39 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said: So, the Mosfets is a AC Power?, and I can see the beads helping, because on high power lines, the closer they are and the higher the power the more you can have a magnetic induced electrical field that can bleed to anything around it, hence why they use glass insulators to keep anything from shorting out so easy. Is it the rainbow calbe? It would be nice if you could just make a board with pins to slot the main to the wifi and get rid of the cable all together. be funny, have a PCI slot on the main board, and on the wifi board on the lid, it has a card facing down that goins into the pci slot or pin terminal and then the lid get screwed down to hold it together, elemenating darn wires. Just my thoughts 😛 Yeah, but the signals have to go about 3.5 inches from the mainboard to the control board--at best. I've considered using long pin standoffs to directly connect the 2 PCBs--but they're unshielded, and would make a significant (unnecessary) design challenge. We'll have to do something with a custom specialized cable and/or PCB design to resolve this issue (yes the ribbon cable is a large part of the issue. Ribbon cables are for carrying data signals, not power!) But hey, getting this far alone has been an exercise in solving issues--so I'm not giving up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 So does it get worse with lower voltage? Most every demo Sean showes is at 48v. Is 24V going to make things worse? I just watch his Vid just now, and I've yet got a email. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 8 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said: So does it get worse with lower voltage? Most every demo Sean showes is at 48v. Is 24V going to make things worse? Don't think so. Higher voltages seem to make it slightly worse--not surprising, I suppose, if slew rate is considered. 8 hours ago, The Blind Wolf said: I just watch his Vid just now, and I've yet got a email. . . One man vs 1,800lbs of inverters and a 7-page setup manual for each inverter...yeah, he isn't Superman yet. If he could do one inverter per hour--and doesn't answer his phone or any emails, no distractions, nothing for anyone else--that's going to take him over 3 full 8-hour workdays to get 'em all done. Much safer to figure 2-3 hours per unit. But at least we have them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I think I'm going to run the Master off of the Lithium Batt bank and the slave is going to run off the 8 deep cycle confg to 24v. Since the slave at the most will run about 30 min on a high load, that longest will be 2 hours I guess if I'm pushing running the dryer and the water heater kicks on while I'm cooking a pizza. Right now I'm sitting at 13k just sitting int he room waiting to get used. I will add probley another 7k to it shortly, but I think the slave should be fine off of the 4s lead deep cycle. Rougly 200 ahm so that give me about 4.8kwh Might buy a few more if it can't hold up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Any Status update on the fixes, and the state of the firmware? I got a email this morning and reply and havn't heard nothing since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 Firmware is decently usable, probably will need some refinement and tweaking, but the functions--for the most part--seem to be good to go. Fixes just need another little check from me...but that's a lot harder now that I'm back to work full time on a huge house project. Gotta pay the bills somehow. We are hoping the inverters will ship by Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Blind Wolf Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 *Biteing Finger Nails.* Sean is being real hush, hush on the fix, and yet no reply to the email I sent out to him. I hope he read the email before doing my invert. I hate to get it and hook up the gen and blow both of them. . . Oh The Wait!!!! Are We there Yet? ? *Grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid Genetry Solar Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Did some tests yesterday with the ferrites, they'll be fine. Just need to make sure it's set up for you before it goes out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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