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New PJ on the way but...


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12 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Have to say I have no idea what size fuse those are.  The PJ inverters on my bench use standard AGC-size fuses.

Might be about time to rip that mess of fuses out and replace it with an AC breaker??

well, I'll be honest, I mean I kinda wondered why they're there. I mean, shouldn't the ac side be handled by my breaker panel?

it's still an interrupt, it's just further down the line by a few feet lol

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14 minutes ago, Glenn S said:

well, I'll be honest, I mean I kinda wondered why they're there. I mean, shouldn't the ac side be handled by my breaker panel?

it's still an interrupt, it's just further down the line by a few feet lol

It's PJ, it doesn't have to make sense 🤪.  Not everyone connects to a breaker panel, so it does make a tad of sense--but not when they use 20A fuses on ONE leg of "8kw" inverters.

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13 hours ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

It's PJ, it doesn't have to make sense 🤪.  Not everyone connects to a breaker panel, so it does make a tad of sense--but not when they use 20A fuses on ONE leg of "8kw" inverters.

Lol can't disagree there. Ok, I'll remove them completely then. Thank again for everyone's input! 😃

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 6/8/2021 at 1:54 PM, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Yeah.  I'd pop one of the large 4.7uF (250v??) caps off the output board, and put it across the other phase of the tranny (L2 - N).  The PJ design here is regulating 120vAC on the control board end (not the total 240v), meaning that only the L1 - N phase is filtered.  You probably notice that the L2 wire goes directly from the tranny to the front panel, and has no AC filtering of any sort.

Hi again. K, so, I'm ready to try this cap mod. Can you please clarify which cap to remove from which board and place where, with a photo? I just don't want to screw up what is currently my only LF inverter lol.

Is the process similar to this vid?

https://youtu.be/tmfXUpOle_c

 

Also, I never did find that led4 on this v11 board. I'm assuming they've deleted it, but if Sid or anyone else has seen it, please let me know where so I can remove it.

 

Having the over heating issues that so many do, so I've ordered another delta fan. It's a 24v fan so I'll run it straight off the inputs so as not to ask anything more of the control board. I've put a hole in the top, right over the tranny, and a hole beneath it as well as removed the retainer. This will allow me to force a shit ton of air through the toroid and should eliminate that problem forever. I've come up with a new retainer that will hold the transformer in place from the outside rather than going through the middle and covering the hole.

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Glenn S said:

Is the process similar to this vid?

https://youtu.be/tmfXUpOle_c

Can't say it is.  On the larger PJ boards, the L2 transformer wire went to the PCB--which is what Sean was connecting to in this video (brief click-through, didn't watch it).  On your inverter, the L2 transformer wire goes directly to the front panel (not the PCB)--so you might even consider putting an external cap from L2 - N on the front panel.

49 minutes ago, Glenn S said:

Also, I never did find that led4 on this v11 board. I'm assuming they've deleted it, but if Sid or anyone else has seen it, please let me know where so I can remove it.

Well, I think it's in the same place--photos obviously are lower resolution here, but I found an LED in the exact place of LED4 on a 10.3 control board (yellow circle) in a photo you posted on this thread:

image.png.cb40ac75d087709c702d5cef6bf96524.png

You could try to desolder the LED--or you could brute-force it like I did, and just twist the LED off the board with some needlenose pliers.  Either way, check very carefully to make sure the pads aren't shorted when you're done.  Might quiet the inverter down a tad.

Blue circle: if you want a "donor cap" you can pop one of these off.

I do notice that the terminology on the board says "L2" instead of L1...whatever.  You want this cap to go from the transformer neutral wire, to the phase that goes unfiltered directly to the front panel.

 

52 minutes ago, Glenn S said:

Having the over heating issues that so many do, so I've ordered another delta fan. It's a 24v fan so I'll run it straight off the inputs so as not to ask anything more of the control board. I've put a hole in the top, right over the tranny, and a hole beneath it as well as removed the retainer. This will allow me to force a shit ton of air through the toroid and should eliminate that problem forever. I've come up with a new retainer that will hold the transformer in place from the outside rather than going through the middle and covering the hole.

Well, I'll wish you best of luck with trying to stop the overheating 😉.  Tried a mod on my "9kw" PJ inverter: had the toroid mounted upright, with a 200CFM Delta blowing directly through the center of the donut.  Still overheated at 3kw...

...solution was to get a transformer wound for better spec!

I recently ohmed out an ASL9 transformer used in a "20kw" PJ, and calculated the losses at 20kw at 2,146W of heat in the transformer.  1,472W of that was the secondary alone.  Nope, that level of heat dissipation isn't possible...not unless it's submerged in liquid moon juice.

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Is the process similar to this vid?

Be  careful  of  doing  what the old video show  .  The video show  the old output charger board  .   I have the  new output board 10.1   and the picture  .    L2  is the  wire that need to be filter as Sid said .    I am  changing  the parts on my 15kw  PJ  inverter  and am surprise  at what  I find out  and will  post later .    

DSCF5694 output.JPG

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 I think it's in the same place--photos obviously are lower resolution here, but I found an LED in the exact place of LED4 on a 10.3 control board (yellow circle) 

 

My rev 11.1  control board  has 4 LED  and in the same place as the 10.3 board .  The LED (circle yellow)  do no light  when  the inverter is running and working  as in my picture  The LED (circle yellow)  will light  when  there is an error  and the inverter will not start  or if running the Led (circle yellow)  show that the inverter will shut down soon or the  mosfetts  will blow up soon  which happen to me  many times .   Sid  is  right that  the rev 11.1  board  is the same and the connection is the same as the 10.3 board .  The difference  is the  short mainboard ribbon cable  is twisted and shield  that  connect to the original  mainboard  .   The rev 11.1 control board works good as a replacement  for  older  powerjack .  

DSCF5707 led.JPG

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5 minutes ago, dickson said:

My rev 11.1  control board  has 4 LED  and in the same place as the 10.3 board .  The LED (circle yellow)  do no light  when  the inverter is running and working  as in my picture  The LED (circle yellow)  will light  when  there is an error  and the inverter will not start  or if running the Led (circle yellow)  show that the inverter will shut down soon or the  mosfetts  will blow up soon  which happen to me  many times . 

The LED I put a yellow circle around on the photo taken by @Glenn S...is already missing from your control board, see circled area below:

image.png.a824f7f869bc64a2131f77ff57dcfd44.png

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The LED I put a yellow circle around on the photo taken by @Glenn S...is already missing from your control board, see circled area 

 

You are right .  I  look at my  rev11.1  board with a magnifly glass  and  the  LED is not there  but is on the  rev10.3 control board .   That  LED  light and blink  when  rev 10.3 has error .    I  have  your  LF Driver Board  rev 1.0   and will test  before using  to see if it will  blow out FETS .    Blowing  24 FETS  on one mainboard  is 100 dollars .  

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24 minutes ago, dickson said:

I  have  your  LF Driver Board  rev 1.0   and will test  before using  to see if it will  blow out FETS . 

The new LF Driver design I provided to PJ is not affected by the LED4.

Reportedly it causes smoke at higher loads, but is fine at lower loads.  2 possibilities that I'm aware of right off:

  • ring in the ribbon cable (which has a terrible pinout) punching the FET gates out (can be helped with 15v zener on the MOS boards)
  • crosstalk due to poor mainboard layout causing extreme FET heat/burn

I am not sure why the PJ LF driver being very imbalanced somehow does not have this problem.

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I am not sure why the PJ LF driver being very imbalanced somehow does not have this problem

 

PJ LF driver do have  this problem  on 15kw 20kw 25kw 30kw  and even worst  .  The  FETS  all  blow out  and the resisters on mosboard  are bad and I can not rebuild the mosboard with new FETS .   Sometimes  the  control board need to be replace .   It  will take  me a while  to make a test  bench for  testing  FETS  at 60v  and your LF driver or PJ LF  driver  at 60v  before using  .   Powerjack  may  modify your LF  driver  and is selling it  .    If  powerjack is not broken  do not try to fix it  or it  just get  worst and more expensive . 

 

 

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This will allow me to force a shit ton of air through the toroid and should eliminate that problem forever. I've come up with a new retainer that will hold the transformer in place from the outside rather than going through the middle and covering the hole.

 

IF  you  not going to move the inverter then  leave the rubber pad off  and have no retainer bracket  at all .   I  remove  the  pad and the retainer and my 15kw  ASL9 transformer  never go over 150 degree F now and would not  auto shut down at 170 F  degree like before        I  stlii  shut down  manually when  battery  voltage drop  to 50 v .  My  heat pump do not like square  wave .   

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On 7/3/2021 at 3:44 PM, dickson said:

IF  you  not going to move the inverter then  leave the rubber pad off  and have no retainer bracket  at all .   I  remove  the  pad and the retainer and my 15kw  ASL9 transformer  never go over 150 degree F now and would not  auto shut down at 170 F  degree like before        I  stlii  shut down  manually when  battery  voltage drop  to 50 v .  My  heat pump do not like square  wave .   

Actually I'll be flipping it and mounting it upside down. New bracket was necessary,😃

 

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Quick update, thank you Sid, for pointing that led4 out for me. No wonder I couldn't find it. It has been deleted from the v11 boards apparently.

I'll do the cap this coming weekend, as this last one was a holiday so I was out camping.

Why on earth do they have l1 going to the l2 location on the board? That has to be frustrating for the ones building it even, no? If I'm building inverters and I see that every board is labeled incorrectly, that would drive me nuts lol ☺

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On 7/3/2021 at 3:44 PM, dickson said:

I  stlii  shut down  manually when  battery  voltage drop  to 50 v .  My  heat pump do not like square  wave .   

Mathematically, the minimum battery voltage your inverter can take and still provide a sine wave--at no load--is 53.125v, assuming 240v output.  Under any load, this number will increase.

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Those are probably standard 5x20mm fuses.  If you have a ruler that has mm on it just check that way and see if it comes out right.  then you know what to buy.  I can get most sizes of fuse locally but you may have to order online.  I would recommend replacing the glass fuses with ceramic fuses to reduce the chance of rupture but other than that either type should get the job done.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/9/2021 at 5:46 AM, kuhrd said:

Those are probably standard 5x20mm fuses.  If you have a ruler that has mm on it just check that way and see if it comes out right.  then you know what to buy.  I can get most sizes of fuse locally but you may have to order online.  I would recommend replacing the glass fuses with ceramic fuses to reduce the chance of rupture but other than that either type should get the job done.

Thanks. Since I don't use the front outlets, I bypassed them altogether and wired it direct.

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