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Damaged GS Inverter from Shipping. . .or not?


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3 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

This is a Maytag Direct Drive digital motor unit.  I also got a counter top dish washer going right now as well, but I've already had to restart the cloth wash because it just started going nuts, like really nuts. and even right now its doing strang things again, my voltage is at 26.14v

Half wondering if it's something funky going on with the "grid tie master" function, which will run a frequency shift if it thinks power is flowing the wrong way.  Washer might be choking on the frequency change.

But that would be very unlikely if there are other loads on the inverter as well.  Unfortunately, this is very hard to diagnose if you can't read the LCD screen...

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Just now, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Umm...OK, something's a little amiss.  I believe Sean calibrated it before sending it out.

Is there any way we can do a video call with you tomorrow morning or something?  I could run through the menus and try to figure out what's going on.

Sure, but I got a doctor appointment at 8:30 my time cst should be back by 10, just a quick ina nd out get a shot thing.

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2 minutes ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

No load current should be significantly below 1 amp (fans off).

well, just running at 1A from what the bms on one of my 12v batt says and the fan will kick ona nd back off every five mins or something.  with it not provideing the correct volts no wonder its getting hot lol.

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1 hour ago, Sean Genetry Solar said:

If you are able to get help and calibrate it back up again. I mean I can't imagine what would cause it. I was hammering on it fairly hard for 2 days with those heating elements to get video footage and it never went out of whack.

Well, I'm still waiting to see those vids :P.  We think its the outlets and me running both at same time, not sure. Keeping a eye on it.  Hmm.  Hey Sid, will have to try it once I get my dishes finished washed, but maybe I have to turn the inverter off then back on for the settings to take effect for the voltage change?

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10 hours ago, Sean Genetry Solar said:

If you are able to get help and calibrate it back up again. I mean I can't imagine what would cause it. I was hammering on it fairly hard for 2 days with those heating elements to get video footage and it never went out of whack.

His washer is a Smartdrive unit which means it wants to generate its own pulsed DC to drive the motor. I wish I had seen this two days ago when I did my washing as I also have a Maytag unit that has one. Would be interesting to see if it's because of the twin units vs my single. Next wash load I'll try mine on the inverter.

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16 minutes ago, Waterman said:

His washer is a Smartdrive unit which means it wants to generate its own pulsed DC to drive the motor. I wish I had seen this two days ago when I did my washing as I also have a Maytag unit that has one. Would be interesting to see if it's because of the twin units vs my single. Next wash load I'll try mine on the inverter.

Nope, I only useing the master, the slave is still in the box, we was reading 99.89v, this is before I wired directly to the block and so far the ac is staying at 124.43v  still having no luck on the washer, going to go check it now, it never finished last night and when I went in this morning the stuff was still wet, and I hit the button and it started back from squaqre one, which is odd for it to do that.

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10 minutes ago, Waterman said:

His washer is a Smartdrive unit which means it wants to generate its own pulsed DC to drive the motor. I wish I had seen this two days ago when I did my washing as I also have a Maytag unit that has one. Would be interesting to see if it's because of the twin units vs my single. Next wash load I'll try mine on the inverter.

So I've had 2 different washing machines running on a GS inverter setup, with zero issues (from the inverter anyhow!)  First had a GE Profile washer...belt-drive system, but the 3-phase motor was MCU controlled HE-style.  Then after it started going senile (motor controller started to forget how to run the spin cycle--nothing mechanically wrong with it at all), I ended up with a Maytag Bravos XL direct-drive HE washer.  (Got it for free, because it wouldn't turn on!  Broke the display panel apart, and inexplicably the touch buttons started working again.)  Sean also has an HE washer, no issues there either. 

Well, now he says it's still not working...will need to look into this further I guess.

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Just went to check, yeah something is going on, they still wet, and it should still be washing right now.  I've been running the dish washer all morning while the washer been going, and checking the voltage and it staying at the correct voltage.  Normally when that maytag is done those clothes even towels are like almost freakin dry. not soakin wet.  I got a huntch its something to do with the Hz, throwing the timeing off.  I was throw it onto my 3d printer, but I got a huntch it will screw that up too.   Will check on it more when I get back from doctor, almost time for me to run.

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6 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Nope, I only useing the master, the slave is still in the box, we was reading 99.89v, this is before I wired directly to the block and so far the ac is staying at 124.43v  still having no luck on the washer, going to go check it now, it never finished last night and when I went in this morning the stuff was still wet, and I hit the button and it started back from squaqre one, which is odd for it to do that.

But there is where there would be a difference. Mine would be pulling the 120VAC off as split phase from the inverter while yours is running single phase 120.

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1 minute ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Just went to check, yeah something is going on, they still wet, and it should still be washing right now.  I've been running the dish washer all morning while the washer been going, and checking the voltage and it staying at the correct voltage.  Normally when that maytag is done those clothes even towels are like almost freakin dry. not soakin wet.  I got a huntch its something to do with the Hz, throwing the timeing off.  I was throw it onto my 3d printer, but I got a huntch it will screw that up too.   Will check on it more when I get back from doctor, almost time for me to run.

Any HZ change would be the result of detected reverse AC power flow...which seems to be more a problem with split-phase setups than single-phase.  If problems persist, we will experiment disabling that function.

It could also be the "auto power save function", particularly if the batts got down to 24v last night--and that'd reset your washer in a hurry.  Probably need to disable that too 😉

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2 minutes ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Just went to check, yeah something is going on, they still wet, and it should still be washing right now.  I've been running the dish washer all morning while the washer been going, and checking the voltage and it staying at the correct voltage.  Normally when that maytag is done those clothes even towels are like almost freakin dry. not soakin wet.  I got a huntch its something to do with the Hz, throwing the timeing off.  I was throw it onto my 3d printer, but I got a huntch it will screw that up too.   Will check on it more when I get back from doctor, almost time for me to run.

Your 3-D printer shouldn't care, at least mine doesn't. If it was going to do something, I would have thought that it would have shown up in a 4 hour run.

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1 minute ago, Sid Genetry Solar said:

Any HZ change would be the result of detected reverse AC power flow...which seems to be more a problem with split-phase setups than single-phase.  If problems persist, we will experiment disabling that function.

It could also be the "auto power save function", particularly if the batts got down to 24v last night--and that'd reset your washer in a hurry.  Probably need to disable that too 😉

Nope its still reading at 26.43v this morning and still running dish washer. got plaenty of power.  and waterman even if split phase your still running on one phase either 120v l1 or l2, only diff is one is at a 180 degree back and forth from the other so shouldn't make any diff.

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\just thinking before I run out the door, could it be the N being doubled up ?  I will messag eyou Sid when I get back, we need to try dropping the voltage again and see if it makes any change since it didn't last time, there could be something else going on due to shipping.

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A large number of appliances with PFC "universal" input voltage range often accept a large frequency variation as well--as they don't care about it too much.  Often 80-265v and 40-70Hz.  A frequency shift will definitely affect older appliances with synchronous motors, etc.--but most newer digital appliances just rectify the AC into DC anyhow, so you could literally run them on 180vDC if you wanted to (non-PFC though)

We'll figure it out.

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1 minute ago, The Blind Wolf said:

Nope its still reading at 26.43v this morning and still running dish washer. got plaenty of power.  and waterman even if split phase your still running on one phase either 120v l1 or l2, only diff is one is at a 180 degree back and forth from the other so shouldn't make any diff.

It shouldn't but it would load the transformer differently. Center tapped transformers can have different characteristics when one side is loaded vs if both sides are loaded. In you case, your transformer is a single doubled output L1 & L2. In my case, it is a single phase across L1 and L2 but center tapped. With light loaded L2-N, the magnetics of the transformer would be different than if operated as a single phase only.

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5 hours ago, Waterman said:

It shouldn't but it would load the transformer differently. Center tapped transformers can have different characteristics when one side is loaded vs if both sides are loaded. In you case, your transformer is a single doubled output L1 & L2. In my case, it is a single phase across L1 and L2 but center tapped. With light loaded L2-N, the magnetics of the transformer would be different than if operated as a single phase only.

Yeah, didn't think on that one, yeah, cause the magnetic field would cause flux changes and such. 

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On 5/20/2021 at 7:51 PM, Sean Genetry Solar said:

First, this is the first major shipping issue we have seen. I am wondering how you know it was dropped and if you have some sort of proof I can make a complaint especially considering that the unit may in fact fail before 1 year and I can hold them liable for that. 

I wouldn't say first as mine was also damaged a bit in shipping but it seemed to be pretty much cosmetic and easy enough to fix with careful use of a pliers other than the broken plastic pins that held the end covers on. It did hit hard enough to slightly bend the corner of the bottom mount but the metal flip cover took the brunt of the impact as it was more bent and the plastic pins that held it were sheered but the screw on the bottom of the cover held but was impacted hard enough to flatten the threads where it went through the cover.  That is UPS for ya, as they throw and drop packages all the time around here.  I did send you an email with a google drive link to pictures at the time.  I looked it over thoroughly before powering it up the first time with a current limited supply.  So far its been working like a champ powering the whole house except the range, dryer and water heater for a couple months now.  It would still consider using a warranty void sticker on each corner since mine flexed enough in shipping to almost completely sever the one warranty sticker which was in the pictures in the google drive link I sent at the time.  It is still partially intact by about half.  It was on the corner that took the impact during shipping.

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8 hours ago, kuhrd said:

I wouldn't say first as mine was also damaged a bit in shipping but it seemed to be pretty much cosmetic and easy enough to fix with careful use of a pliers other than the broken plastic pins that held the end covers on. It did hit hard enough to slightly bend the corner of the bottom mount but the metal flip cover took the brunt of the impact as it was more bent and the plastic pins that held it were sheered but the screw on the bottom of the cover held but was impacted hard enough to flatten the threads where it went through the cover.  That is UPS for ya, as they throw and drop packages all the time around here.  I did send you an email with a google drive link to pictures at the time.  I looked it over thoroughly before powering it up the first time with a current limited supply.  So far its been working like a champ powering the whole house except the range, dryer and water heater for a couple months now.  It would still consider using a warranty void sticker on each corner since mine flexed enough in shipping to almost completely sever the one warranty sticker which was in the pictures in the google drive link I sent at the time.  It is still partially intact by about half.  It was on the corner that took the impact during shipping.

Yours would have been first revision with the end covers (and yes, the plastic pins ALWAYS get busted!); we have since deprecated those, and gone with a metal box cover on the one end.

For the 3rd order (should start production any day now) we have asked them to modify the chassis design slightly to add corner reinforcement.  Should help considerably with those sort of issues.  What we are glad to hear is that at least so far there have been NO fatal damages to GS inverters due to shipping.  Cosmetic, yes.  Functional...not so far.  Which is good.

I guess Sean considering it "the first significant damage" was because it reportedly was "dropped 2 stories"...but upon seeing the photos, it sounds like yours took more of a hit. 

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