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  1. The transformers are wound with aluminum for cost and weight reasons. If you rewind the ASL9 core with appropriately sized copper wire, you should easily be able to get more than 14kw continuous out of the ASL9 with minimal heat. I don't have the patience for that, but...it can be done. I haven't found a reason to doubt the quality of the PJ tranny cores--at least so far.
    4 points
  2. Way too easy to forget that people live further away from the equator than I do 😇
    2 points
  3. I have always understood that warning to refer to the AC input--which can't handle a 3-wire AC input ("L1 N L2"), or the inverter will blow up due to a backfeed condition. Beyond that, there is absolutely no issue with split-phase output from an "AMG transformer." For that matter, there isn't any intrinsic design difference between the "5-wire" transformers and an "AMG 6-wire" transformer. Phase voltage imbalance is in most cases a complete non-issue--it's just the customer who notices it. As most appliances accept a fairly large voltage range, it generally won't hurt or affect appliances in any way. Most of the PJ inverters only regulate output voltage from a single 120v phase anyway--and often don't even have an AC output filter cap on the other phase. This is even on the "5-wire" transformers, one of which I have on my bench right now. The L2 wire goes directly from the transformer to the terminal block. No filtering or regulation whatsoever on the other phase--and that's a v9.0 PJ inverter with a copper-wound transformer.
    2 points
  4. Nope. PJ has their own in-house designs manufactured to their files. They have no connection to Yiyen. As a matter of fact, Jack has in the past talked about buying an SMD placement machine so they could literally assemble their own boards in-house. The only similarity between Yiyen and PJ (and for that matter, ALL other Chinese LF manufacturers, including Growatt, Aims, etc., etc.)...is that they all copied the exact same initial inverter PCB design to start with. Reportedly, this was an older Xantrex inverter.
    2 points
  5. maybe a gofund me page would get you guys (Genetry Solar)up to a quantity volume to get bulk component pricing. or some sort of similar method to fund the gs inverter line. just an idea for you to ponder. I know that Electrodacus utilized some sort of funding to help get started. garage start ups are what the USA needs. just a thought!
    2 points
  6. Any discount price is due to stock here in the States. I found this on "watts247.com" which is selling a Growatt 12kw for $2,588 regular price, currently discounted to $2,329 (not including shipping). They did include this very interesting note: So any comparison between Growatt (or other brands) and the as-yet-unconfirmed price of the GS 12kw inverter MUST keep in mind the following realities: Growatt weighs in at a listed 201lbs. FREIGHT SHIPPING IS NOT CHEAP. The GS 12kw inverter should weigh UNDER 150lbs, and as such can ship via regular UPS. The listed Growatt prices are based on the current U.S. stock--and said prices WILL be rising (due to inflation and shipping costs). Genetry Solar does not have any current stock of the GS 12kw inverter, and as such our prices will have to reflect the current reality, not a delayed history. According to the above, Growatt inverter prices will also be rising due to a parts shortage (implied, not stated). Genetry Solar has not been significantly affected by the parts shortage at the current time. For example, the main processor on the PJ boards used to sell for ~$7/ea. After that one went completely out of stock in China (been out of stock in the USA for a LONG time by then!), I managed to find them a pin-compatible "sister" chip that was actually slightly cheaper, and required only very minor code modifications to function. That chip has gone from ~$7/ea to $30/ea (and of course has no stock in the States). (If your PJ inverter control board has a PIC18F87K90 CPU on it, that's the replacement chip I found for 'em. Was easy: it has an LCD driver on it, so nobody else used it, "we don't need an LCD driver." But the LCD driver can easily be ignored.) And of course, I found Enersave Solutions selling the Growatt 12k inverter for a cool $498,000. Go grab yourself one before they run out of stock...! https://www.enersavesolutions.com/product/growatt-12000w-hybrid-inverter-w-wifi-monitoring-adapter-copy/ (sorry, too late...already out of stock. Must have been one great sales team!) (on second glance...looks like their e-sales module has been misconfigured because all the prices are ridiculous.)
    2 points
  7. FYI that's not a capacitor on the "old" board at "ADJUST10"...it's an SMD resistor installed upside down. A capacitor will not serve much of a function there... The DIP switch's purpose is an adjustable resistance shunt across the current sense transformer (E124-LF-L). The more shunted the output of that transformer, the more power the inverter will produce before declaring an overload condition. And before v11 (where the adjustable resistor shunt is bypassed with a fixed value in charge mode), it would also simultaneously adjust the charge current.
    2 points
  8. hard to say what it really weighs, the labels say 156 pounds , the shipping label says 139 pounds from Fedex, eBay seller said 133 pounds but it is a heavy brick that is for sure. the primary wires are smaller diameter and the 4 secondary wires are larger diameter. the wires are all labeled. there are 10 primary wire to give you various input options and the 4 secondary options to give you 120 or 240 volt out put. they have a green bolt and green wire connected to the case also. it is encapsulated so you can not actually see the wound transformer, but I suspect/believe it is made of copper. I will have too straighten the mounting brackets a bit but had to peak inside this morning. this is the bottom as it is upside down on the 2 wheel hand truck. i think i will mount it on some unistrut maybe so I can service the wires on the bottom and i can either have them exit out the back or side through he knockouts. i will bring in to the primary through one knock out ant go out through a different knock out to separate and add some type of organization to the connections. the wife will not like it if I damage the high priced ceramic tile in the kitchen so I will soon be banned to the cold outer world. more later.
    2 points
  9. My v10.3c/ASL3 upower 8k 24-230V does intermittently develop some 12.5Hz (fOut/4) voltage oscillation under light load (<200w). Above that it seems pretty stable. This only causes a noticeable issue with cheap chinese LED bulbs that don't have a proper AC-DC converter inside. All the decent quality LED bulbs that I have bought from uk retailers are fine. The direct-from-china bulbs don't have a proper converter chipset - just a rectifying diode, capacitor (usually undersized so some noticeable 50Hz flicker even on grid, which most people don't even notice but really disturbs me) and a dropper resistor. The really old PJ V1.4 of same specs with 2x AS2 transformers in series doesn't exhibit any oscillation. But Sid said in response to one of my older posts that has a completely different MCU and hence firmware
    2 points
  10. I generally don't like to talk about earthing systems since it's a pretty important thing to get right and there's plenty of variation in how earthing is done but for you, you are using LF inverters that have a big output transformer. That inherently gives you isolation between the input side and output side including DC input. Add salt as necessary for everything below. If this was my installation that had nothing to do with the grid I would have the current carrying wires out of the inverter floating, ie not tied to earth in any way. They go to the supply panel / meter / fuse box and there is where the neutral is declared and tied to ground and the premises internal system earth is derived from. The inverter chassis is tied to the internal system earth. Downstream from the panel / meter / fuse box 3 wires (earth, neutral, live/line/active) go to each point of delivery be it a wall outlet or light. Its important that there is only 1 neutral earth bonding / tie point in the system and that all supply points down stream have a separate earth wire. If this is not the case RCDs (GFCIs) can't function properly, or perhaps at all. Youtube threw up a clip from a South African sounding guy this morning about the use of European (really just 230VAC single phase) inverters and adapting them to USA split phase. This should be mandatory viewing for people in the USA considering this course of action. I don't know the MPP and Growatt inverters in enough detail to tell but it is possible they have a neutral/earth bond relay which is switched depending on the inverter sensing it can pass current across neutral earth. That has implications for what he says so don't forget to have that salt handy while watching. I do know that several models of MPP Solar clearly state there is no isolation between the PV side and the AC side and that simple sentence brings a whole lot of safety requirements which can not be ignored.
    2 points
  11. the main entryway in my mountain getaway ranch in Bolivia , South America. It is summer there. wish I was there but maybe in a couple months. they had to rebuild it to fit the wooden arc correctly. next week the 2 big doors will be installed. .... it is 220 volt single phase wire there now the last 3 years, before it was all built off-grid with some generator use periodically. off topic i know
    2 points
  12. Yes. You bet. All PJ trannies are aluminum-wound. PJ's goal is to make the most budget inverter possible--and with aluminum being 1/3rd the cost of copper, something like 40% of the weight...it's a win-win. Back before PJ was winding their own transformers, they were copper wound. (These transformers can be identified by the colored/insulated wire coming out of the transformers, instead of the enameled strands going directly to the crimps.) Such transformers used much thinner copper wire--so they aren't "collectibles" by any means. That'll work, yes...but don't expect any significant increase in usable power output from the PJ inverter. Not only have you added the external transformer's losses (i.e. PJ inverter has to run HARDER to power the same load, to make up for the external transformer losses), you've also put more load on the "thinner" PJ transformer winding (as now ALL loads will pull across both secondary windings). It's worth a try, though...
    2 points
  13. Haha, funny. Several people have suggested oil-cooled inverters--BUT oil does not intrinsically cool something. It does, however, transfer heat far better than air--but at the end of the day, the same amount of heat must be dealt with one way or another. PJ does not understand the American "split-phase" power system. As far as they are concerned, the inverter outputs 2 voltages, "220v", and "110v." Because the amperage at 110v is higher (for the same wattage) than 220v, they use more wire on the "110v phase." Problem is, the USA "split-phase" power system is technically TWO series 110v phases totaling 220v--and ideally, the load will be distributed fairly evenly across the 2 phases. GS inverter transformer specifications have both secondary windings with the same wire spec, for a balanced transformer. Not a liability issue as much as an unneeded complexity/issue/challenge. We're having enough entertainment getting custom chassis made to our exact requirements--much less an oil-tight sealed chamber design. Mathematically, the losses in the transformer windings on the new 12kw tranny should be significantly under 10% loss. I'm hoping to see ~700-800W heat loss at full load, with a total inverter efficiency >90%. (Current test tranny inverter comes right in at 88%.)
    2 points
  14. Glad you enjoy the inverter; I have major revamps/redesigns and proper implementations of features coming in 1.1r6 which should hopefully get charge working considerably better...plus adding more features.
    2 points
  15. No, the total size is much larger, requiring a larger chassis. It otherwise should theoretically work. Aluminum. The manufacturer insisted on trying a copper-wound tranny with the same specs--and it barely reached 120F at the 14kw load test (in other words, more than sufficient). BUT...the tranny was well past DOUBLE the cost (as copper is TRIPLE the cost of aluminum), and will weigh significantly more (as copper weighs almost double as the same sized aluminum)--which increases shipping weight. Double whammy for trying to make a cost-effective inverter. Closer to 30/240...the sharper ratio to allow for more voltage drop in the tranny / cabling and still maintain a pure sine wave. (The ideal transformer core voltage also significantly affects the available options for transformer voltages...the next step up from ~30v would be 33v.) Yes. We were quite close with the first prototype tranny...reaching ~10kw before temps started to go higher than we wanted (~180F) with a very typical 88% total inverter efficiency. I'm thinkin' those other Chinese manufacturers run their inverters well past 212F, if not 250F...which we aren't comfortable doing. Adding another 30% wire to the primary on the next 12k tranny (as well as using a "high efficiency" core--higher core voltage) should hopefully push the total 12kw inverter efficiency up to 90% (or maybe even a tad higher) and allow it to run <180F at full 12kw load.
    2 points
  16. It's directly dependent on the "exciting coil voltage" divided by the number of turns of said coil. Here's a sample table I created with an ASL5 tranny core: in volt in amp core v loss delta 25vAC 0.015A 0.208v 0.375W 1667 50vAC 0.027A 0.418v 1.35W 1852 75vAC 0.036A 0.626v 2.70W 2083 100vAC 0.046A 0.828v 4.60W 2174 125vAC 0.062A 1.038v 7.75W 2016 150vAC 0.092A 1.240v 13.80W 1630 [starting to get noisy] 175vAC 0.286A 1.450v 50.05W 612 [quite noisy] 200vAC 2.800A 1.700v 560.00W 71 [loud hum] where "in volt" is the input voltage I provided to a coil (from the variac) "In Amp" is the measured transformer current draw (no load) at said voltage "core v" is the core turns/volt measured with a single wire loop around the core (put one meter probe through the core, and then short both probes together) Note how "Core V" is always the exact same ratio (+/- measurement errors) to "In Volt"--you can literally divide "In Volt" by "Core V" at any point to determine the # of turns in the input coil (= 120 turns.) Also note that even when the transformer core is running terrible efficiency due to saturation...it STILL transfers the turns/volt driven by the excitation coil (worth noting that I didn't hold the tranny at 1.7v/turn for very long, and only hasty readings...but it still reports 200 / 1.7 = 117.6 turns) "loss" = "in volt" * "in amp" = an interesting graph of core loss "delta" = "in volt" / "in amp" = an arbitrarily scaled result that shows the very interesting "peak efficiency" here at ~0.828v/turn On a bigger core that I tried, the core voltage could be run significantly higher before falling off the saturation cliff. It also had a higher "peak efficiency" voltage. These tests can be done on any transformer core...with or without windings. If you have an unknown core, it's still easier to wind a dozen turns of wire around it for the variac purposes (as it's awfully hard to run a 120vAC variac from 0-2vAC out with any sort of precision!
    2 points
  17. Words to live by.... I literally do. I have several powerjacks and a few sets of spare parts. That said, it's too bad how far powerjack's quality level has fallen in recent times. Obviously, they were never top quality, but the price made up for it, and parts were always available. I have stated and still feel that I won't be buying any more powerjack inverters. "They just don't make 'em like they used to" These days you never know what you'll get in a powerjack/upower box. As things currently stand, when I need to buy a new inverter, it will likely be a Genetry. Higher priced than pj of course, but you are actually getting something more for those extra bucks spent. A power rating you don't have to cut in half. A transformer wound to be balanced between phases. A control board redesigned to eliminate many of powerjack's shortcomings. Last and probably more important than the rest; after sale support from Sid via this forum. When the world we are used to falls apart, we will probably all be on our own. (I had a whole paragraph written here that I just deleted because it was too "Doom and Gloom")Happy New Year!
    2 points
  18. Good luck with the SMA Sunny. It will certainly do what it says on the tin but how many times the price of a PJ/upower of equal capability? (use a 10kW or 15kW PJ/Upower for comparison as this number of chinese watts would equate to the sustained 4.4kW rating of the Sunny). I can get three PJ 15kw running 4000 watts as I do now and probably last 10 years for the price of one SMA Sunny . I like Paul idea .
    2 points
  19. Everything is a compromise between cost and reliability. But even the highest quality (thus supposedly reliable) stuff sometimes fails prematurely. As some have seen ffrom my other posts I have a PJ 8k (v1.4) from 2013 which still works fine. Unlike the Victron of the same era despite the Victron unit appearing to be much better designed (as viewed from an engineers perspective like mine) but completely unsupported by the manufacturer now. Whereas if my 2013 PJ failed, I could get the current version of boards from China and make it work again with fairly basic electronics skills. The 2020 upower 8k is more efficient than the 2013 PJ but the ASL3 transformer isn't as large a mass as the 2x AS2 transformers that are wired in series on the 2013 PJ. I've seen the ones with the solid heatsinks, and thought why on earth would any idiot do that!!?? Thankfully I've never received one like that. Good luck with the SMA Sunny. It will certainly do what it says on the tin but how many times the price of a PJ/upower of equal capability? (use a 10kW or 15kW PJ/Upower for comparison as this number of chinese watts would equate to the sustained 4.4kW rating of the Sunny). I agree with @Bear with the apparent apocalypse looming it is wise to start building a reliable off-grid power system amongst other things, but what happens when your expensive Sunny breaks and you can't contact the manufacturer, or they don't have spares? Or someone breaks into the garage and steals it for their own use... In my case I have spare batteries and a spare PJ inverter sitting in the house some distance from the garage so could reinstate power pretty quick in a post-apocolyptic world :). However my real motivation for experimenting with off-grid power was that about 3 years ago I anticipated an 'energy crisis' due to all our nuclear plants being decommissioned due to end of life and little progress building new ones. So I decided to start building a backup as I knew grid prices would rise dramatically and availability may become intermittent. People laughed at me then, but now the chickens are coming home to roost! I did a 2 year fixed price with EDF energy in march 2020 at 8p/16p per kWh. Now the best rates (excluding the government capped rate which is well below market rate but set to rise by at least 50% in April 2022) is 16p/35p per kWh and we haven't even had a real still, cloudy, cold spell yet this winter to test the UK grid's extreme dependence on gas power generation...
    2 points
  20. Ah, but here's something to keep in mind: I am assuming your panels are on a fixed array. The sun is significantly lower in the sky in the wintertime than in the summer (at least in the Northern hemisphere). From a direct point-of-view, the panels are getting LESS actual sun in the wintertime due to the LESS-than-perpendicular angle. This will result in reduced power output. At least from my guesstimates, a 15-degree angle (0-degree being flat on the ground) tilt is good for summertime. Wintertime is best at closer to a 60-degree angle (IIRC, could be wrong!)--and if your panels are at 15-degree angle, they're basically tilted away from the sun in the wintertime. But something to keep in mind: if it's cloudy, the best panel angle is flatter (i.e. closer to 15 degrees), though then snow likes to build up on them. So many compromises!
    1 point
  21. I could literally cut one of the secondary windings' wires out of that lug, crimp them into a separate lug, and *bam* I'd have a "6-wire AMG" transformer. (Sure, the 2 windings probably won't be balanced voltagewise, but that has nothing to do with the point I'm making here.) I know the point you are making that PJ let the buyer decide if the inverter is 120vac single phase or can be jumper to be 240vac single phase with one 120vac line . PJ on ebay say not L1 N L2 . I know it can be wired L1 N L2 to the house but the 2 windings may not be balanced voltagewise . Is that the reason PJ say not L1 N L2 ? IF jumper for direct 240vac single phase 60 hz and L1 and L2 not balanced is ok to start an inductive load but if wire split phase and a large load is on one of the 120vac line then the inductive load will not get the full 240vac output and may not start . That split phase may have an unbalanced line and reason to not L1 N L2 but wired as L1 and L2 direct to the well pump without neutral and ground connect to the inverter case .
    1 point
  22. But hey, people keep buying PJ inverters, so I bought a 15 kw PJ because PJ advertise that it will do 15kw . The price is cheaper than any other inverter . I do the test and found out that it blew up all the parts . That why PJ can sell the 12000 watt on ebay and a lot of it for 329 dollars . The parts to repair is more than 329 dollars 2 years ago . The 2 complete large mainboards is 390 dollars and the control board with LF driver is 130 dollars . The ac output board is 10 dollars at the time . So why not buy a 12kw PJ and use the parts and get 3000 watts usable ouput ? My 15kw will now only do 4000 watts with the rev 11.1 control board . They PJ fix the various issue by cutting the output power so less return . Most people test with small load and do not know the real max output and the warranty run out in 2 weeks so too late to return and if complain then no more inverter for you on ebay right ?
    1 point
  23. via a google search >>> signature solar was the vendor on eBay for the 12k grow watt for $2049 and $175 flat rate shipping. not ready to try that one out yet. it does have a 120amp 150V MPPT solar charge controller built in but I do not need all those extra capabilities built in all though the newer all in one styles lend more to the simpler plug and play scenario. so that could be a plus for some people. sungold power 12k inverter was found on the google search $2799 with free shipping. big inverters definitely cost more and inflation is hitting everyone hard. budget is not ready/able to buy one of those either at the moment. i am retired on a fixed income so have to try to be economical/frugal where I can. frugal does not always come out the best especially when buying tools. buy older American made tools they are often better quality! in Bolivia we always avoid the china tools cause they were not made of good steel, the Brazilian made tools or German made tools were the ones to buy. Germans manufacture quality tools! Retired is still working multiple projects for myself (at my pace when I choose)and not punching someone else's time clock. I have a 3 story solar building in South Dakota that I wills set up another off-grid solar PV system in the future. slow but sure. shipping heavy equipment is very expensive for sure! the little guy cannot get the bulk shipping discounts. 😎
    1 point
  24. Upgrading an A.1 to a C board is DEFINITELY a project for a sighted person who is electrically savvy. The board layout is COMPLETELY different, and several of the connectors have changed (genstart / power button are now on separate connectors, not the same ones). Wiring is different, and now there's 2 external amperage sensors that need to have 2 wires crossed through them in opposite directions, etc. And like I responded on the other thread...switching to 36v also requires a rewiring of the transformer primaries. Not just one screw, more like the wires on 4-5 screws need moved around appropriately. I could coach a sighted person through the process via video call, but it's not a "plug'n'play" job by any means. But if it avoids the cost of shipping inverters back and forth, that might be worth a try. Will say that with your setup on 120v single-phase inverters, there's not as much of a need for Rev. C's added features. The auto gen start/switching, etc. is also coming to the Rev. A.1/B boards via firmware update. Also with 120v inverters, there is no AC input backfeed issue.
    1 point
  25. yes, the batteries run the 3 inverters 24/7. I do not use a generator and it is not hooked to the grid. I do not shut the inverters down, I may throttle back the usage but the inverters are running 24/7. so as dickson noted the 12k GS inverter will cost over 2500 plus shipping Correct???? I do know that PowerJack is selling low cost inverters. if the 26,000 watt AMG version will run 6500 watt continuously for $527 dollars delivered including tax that is very competitive. id o not want or need the grid cxharging or generator charging capabilities. this is strictly an off-grid solar PV build. noisy generators >>> who wants that. Do not want to pay the grid either... impossible to compete with the china PowerJack eBay sales. unless you can get the 25cent per hour workers? still the question is what will be the real price of the 12K GS inverter? what will it weigh? 2.5 times $1099 = 2,747.50 dollars plus tax (shipping?) it is funny that they put enamel aluminum wire to try to make you think it is copper in the PowerJack inverters(deception is King). hope they upgrade something to make it work better. I thought it was a copper wound transformer when I received the 164 pound 20,000 watt PowerJack guiney pig inverter that they replaced. I think it cost about $700 in 2020. I sent that to sean and 3 months later they sent me a new one.
    1 point
  26. I have 3 running 24/7 but at very low loads. 2 of them have been running continuously for over a year and the other one the 15000 watt 3 piece one has been running continuously since August. Do you have enough charge in your battery to keep all 3 PJ inverters running through the night or do you use a generator to charge the battery at night ? I only have enough charge in my battery to run 16 hours with my 15kw PJ inverter during the winter , I think a GS 12kw will only last 8 hour at running 8000 watts with my battery and solar panel . I live in the middle of the city and the next house is only 20 feet away so the inverter fan will make too much noise at night .
    1 point
  27. $2500 would be a lot to pay. i am buying a separate 200 amp Square D Q main panel and 100 amp rated 3phase disconnects. the inverters have circuit breaker built in but I do not trust them. I have never paid more than $700 for the 15,000 and 20,000 watt inverters and only $527 for the 26,000 watt AMG one. i would have to go back in my records to see the exact prices of the previous models. if they will only produce 25 percent of their claim, I will have to run more than one as I am doing at the moment to keep them under their heat/failure threshold. have to see what they send me via the so called speed pack shipping direct from china on the slow boat ride in about another 30 plus days or so. PowerJack warranty is short but the cost to ship them anywhere essentially ends their warranty as it would cost most of the price of buying a replacement. maybe that is their business model, disposable inverters. I have 3 running 24/7 but at very low loads. 2 of them have been running continuously for over a year and the other one the 15000 watt 3 piece one has been running continuously since August. the shipping on the 139 to 156 pound 7.5KVA transformer was 200 one way. repair shipping is a killer especially when you have to ship it both ways and pay parts and labor after the 1 year warranty expires which only give you 30 day free shipping if there is a problem. the gs6 is $1099 on the website and 2.5 times that would make the price over $2500 plus shipping. that is what he (Sean) said on the last YouTube video for a price guestimate for the 12k gs inverter. I was thinking maybe it would be more in the 1500 dollar range. i will try to watch Sean's 12k promotional video again.
    1 point
  28. The v11 control board is basically the same as the 10.3(c) board with the "OEM modified amp limit" circuit on the board. There is no other significant change to the board that I am aware of. The purpose of the "amp limit" board is to reduce the charge current to a set amount regardless of the inverter's wattage size. So it does sound like it's working 🤪.
    1 point
  29. the 7.5KVA transformer arrived yesterday via Fedex. unboxed it in the middle of the night. heavy at 133 pounds to man-handle. it is a 240x480 primary to 230x340 secondary general purpose transformer. i am planning to hook it into the 240 out put of the inverter then either use 240 or 120 to the main breaker AC panel. all off-grid. thanks for the grounding discussion, I am still reading and studying those points and will incorporate the grounding on the AC side of things with hopefully some type of GFCI type protection. the 7.5KVA transformer with be about 95 percent efficient so I will loose/waste some solar generated battery capacity with this(5 percent). I still need to make more room in the off-grid solar power shed while I wait for weather to allow the bigger outside equipment builds. right now it is still a floating neutral without an earth ground like in the RV systems; I will change that in a bit of time. I do really appreciate the discussion and feedback. thanks all
    1 point
  30. Using several RCDs instead of a single master also addresses low level leakage, which is perfectly normal, accumulating and pushing the master RCD closer to its trip current resulting in the last straw, which may also be completely safe levels, causing a false trip.
    1 point
  31. Yep earthing and fusing is simply there to protect the installation (wiring etc) from overheating and potentially catching fire in the event of a fault. And as you rightly state, the maximum disconnection time is 5 seconds for most circuits, in UK regs anyway, not sure about other countries. When rewiring the house shortly after buying it in 2013, I opted to fit RCBO's on every circuit rather than the clumsy dual-RCD and a bunch of MCB's which seems to be the uk electricians default choice. Reason being is that although my choice costs a bit more, it allows the use of a smaller consumer unit by saving 4 unnecessary slots, makes any kind of earth leakage fault traceable to a single circuit, and crucially, prevents an earth leakage fault on one circuit from killing other circuits. So for example the washing machine develops an earth leakage fault, it doesn't put out the lights! Regarding the off/on grid switching I utilise a 2PCO switch with centre-off to ensure no risk of grid-inverter connection. I have the inverter neutral tied to the grid earth, which is actually combined with the grid neutral as the supply is what is called PME in the Uk. So my RCBO's will still trip in the event of a >30mA earth leakage on any circuit. The inverter case is also tied to the same earth. I have no earthing on the DC side other than the metal framework on which the PV panels are mounted being about 2ft into the soil.
    1 point
  32. I can take a look at the main board, it looks like just 4 screws holding the board above it down? I can see one of the caps, they are purple, not the black. The board on top says v 11.3
    1 point
  33. yes i now have a new ebay account and when i specifically complained about the blocking problem to powerjack they asked what i wanted to buy but never cured their seller blocking on ebay. i posted they renigged and got blocked from the 1st ebay account i had since 2003. shifty they are for sure. i have read on other forums that it is their mentality, not a customer service based mentality but one of deception is their pride. yes, i think it best to temper ones responses/reviews a bit or risk getting blocked without notice. wonder when sean is going to open his powerjack store? this was over a 15k 48volt inverter that arrived damaged in a previous purchase where they tried to go outside of ebay where you would have no recourse. ebay specifically said not to do it when i talked to customer service at ebay. but somehow without notice ebay allowed the seller to block me. big money talks huh? at any rate one has to be careful of their words. lots of snake oil sales people out there.
    1 point
  34. What @TheButcher said. Appliance that use a diode as a cheap way to get a "low" setting, will wreck havoc on an inverter's regulation function in such modes. In the case of a PJ, it will run the regulator into a wild oscillation--resulting in what you describe.
    1 point
  35. I have the 12000 amg version. Just came in , running some tests now, sine wave looks good, so far I’ve put a 2000 watt continuous load there is a strange issue though with some resistive devices, for example., one 120v space heater I have caused the transformer to hum very loud on low setting and it consumes about 1100 watts when it should be using about 600-700, on high setting, it uses 1500 which is right, and no hum. another example is hair dryer, on low, it looks as if it causes a dead short on power jack, but runs fine on high setting, but causes alarm on powerjack when running low heat
    1 point
  36. on the DC side of things: I run 4/0 wires to the LF inverters from the LiFePo4 batteries. and use 400 amp class T fuses as the short circuit inrush current from large LiFePO4 batteries can reach 20,000 amps AIC and not just anything will break that in case of a catastrophy (dumb dumb mistake). see Lithium Solar you tube video about fuses. a lot of so-called DC breakers are not capable of properly stopping a LiFePO4 battery surge and are a fire hazzard at best. long story short is HRC fuses for the Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries (aka LiFePO4). do your research for a safe system. I use the class T fuses and the class T fuse holders with cover. best bet is to consult your electrician about it, and or code official to be safe.
    1 point
  37. it is not a 12,000 watt version. it is the 26,000 watt AMG version. I know you bought the 26000 watt AMG . I post the picture of the 12000 watt AMG to show how bad PJ advertise on ebay . I estimate that this 12kw AMG will run less than 3000 watts continous . 3000 watts is what my old 8kw PJ put out . I do not know what your 26000 kw AMG put out but it will be a lot less the 13000kw . Someone on this forum run 8000 watts with ASL10 transformer but do not how long before it overheat .
    1 point
  38. You MIGHT find a "SID LF Driver" in it. But might not. That's the extent of what you could expect to find, though--at least at this moment.
    1 point
  39. Wonder if the 26,000 watt one will do 13,000 watts continuously that it is rated at. this is one of their new style AMG versions Sid say PJ does not understand the American "split-phase" power system. As far as they are concerned, the inverter outputs 2 voltages, "220v", and "110v. I am sure your inverter will not do one half the rate advertise . Base on the price the inverter will do less than one quarter advertise rate . Having a 6 wire transformer will give more power for 120vac but will not be good for L1 N L2 split phase circuit . 240vac is ok if direct wired to the load . Ebay now sell the 12000 watt AMG for a lot less than the 8kw that I bought . That tell me something is wrong with the design and getting less power . I do not know what PJ engineer is thinking . It is not a BMW AMG ev car
    1 point
  40. I think the problem with these things are the contacts going high resistance, high being in terms of milliohms of course. I pulled the failed one apart and noticed quite a bit of pitting on the contacts. In all the time I have had this breaker in service it has not been switched under load and not had the inverter's capacitors dropped onto it either. I felt the battery side breaker on my Victron charger just now and it was roasting hot indicating it was carrying high current but the Victron was only doing about 30A out at the time. The meter showed the breaker was dropping 500mV and a bit of probing showed that it had to be the contacts. Yikes. Pulled that one out of service and put a spare in which shows about 25mV drop. I think it'd pay to check the breaker's temperature and voltage drop under load Sid, just in case you have a problem lurking there.
    1 point
  41. Very interesting. I've got several of these breakers on the MPPT charge controllers--but all the main power breakers I'm using are non-Chinese units (i.e. Airpax, Heinemann, etc.) Worth noting that I've even had problems with (used) GJ1P breakers tripping early AND half-tripping (i.e. only one pole tripping, but not both)--context being the 12kw inverter tests at Sean's w/ a 300A GJ1P. I will be very interested to hear how some "TAIXI" breakers handle. They're all so similar in design (except for the print) that I can't help but wonder if they're all just rebrands of the same shoddy breaker manufacturer...
    1 point
  42. Would you believe <0.8A @ 53v no load consumption on the current 12kw prototype? GS6kw production inverters run ~0.5A @ 53v at no load. In other words, a single 12kw idle consumption should be slightly LESS than 2 GS6 inverters. The updated GS12 tranny uses a different core than the current prototype...which is going to have the most impact on the no-load current. We will discover what the no-load power usage is once we get the tranny and actually test it on a GS setup. Can you explain how load affects the "gauss"? (I shall also link this [very knowledgeable] fellow who has a very strong opinion about the use of such terminology in first 3 paragraphs: https://ludens.cl/Electron/Magnet.html ) I would fully expect "max load determined by 'max gauss' of core" terminology in power amplifier circles--where the louder the racket is blasted, the higher the output voltage required to get more wattage through the (fixed resistance) speakers. This will definitely put a "cap" on the "maximum load" from the transformer core perspective--as once the core voltage starts to reach the saturation level, efficiency goes through the floor, heat goes through the roof, and the whole party comes to an end. Conversely, in power inverters, the output voltage is (or should be!) constant from no load through full load. As a result, the core voltage will only increase a very small amount from no load to full load--actually, only as much as is necessary to overcome losses in the secondary winding for maintaining the desired output voltage. (This core voltage increase can very easily be calculated if the secondary winding resistance is known.) If we're inadvertently mixing up "transformers for power amplifiers" with "transformers for DC-AC power inverters", this would explain a lot of the confusion--as the 2 worlds may only share similar power (wattage) ranges as common ground. The math and limitations for the separate fields are considerably different. For inverters, I detailed above measuring the "peak efficiency" core voltage...using only (relatively) simple tools/equipment, not laboratory equipment costing thousands. (Funny when the expensive equipment comes to the same conclusion as the backyard experimenter!)
    1 point
  43. Are you planning to be 100% off-grid? If so, what kind of power source do you have? Wind? Solar? Hydro? Over-unity free energy generator? (Let me know if you ever get one to work, haha!) I personally exclusively have solar. On sunny days, it's great--I can easily attain ~100% of the nameplate capacity. However, on cloudy days for 80% of the year, I'll usually get somewhere around 8-12% nameplate capacity. But in the middle of winter (i.e. right now) when it decides to be an extremely dark, gloomy "Indian summer" at 46F outside...I will get as little as 2% of the nameplate capacity during the day. That's right...55W off of a 2,940W-rated array. 0.2kwh for the entire day. On a good clear sunny day, that very same exact array will happily produce 14-15kwh. If your load demands are approx. 15kwh for the entire day, you will need WAY more than 15kwh of energy storage IF you have an intermittent and unpredictable energy source (i.e. wind/solar) and need to power loads for a couple of "low power" days. 45kwh will get you ~3 days of usage assuming little to no power coming in. But then your generation capacity has to be able to recharge that in a reasonable timeframe...when the power does come in. Generation capacity is also important for intermittent power sources (solar/wind). It takes a LOT of solar to generate 15kwh for a cloudy day. I personally have ~12kwh of battery storage--but the ONLY significant loads (that we can't do without) are a refrigerator and a chest freezer. (Average daily usage of those 2 items is ~3kwh.) With just under 11kw of solar rated capacity, we usually have enough power to run both of those appliances without issues on "average cloudy" days--though we adapt our power usage to the amount of power we have coming in (i.e. don't plan to run every appliance in the house all day long if it's cloudy outside).
    1 point
  44. Yes I remember watching that video, very scary! If I remember it was a little 3kW PJ unit with an ASL1 transformer which would be capable of 1.2kW continuous at best!
    1 point
  45. Yah, a lot of Chinese-designed stuff is simply thrown together for absolute minimum cost and sold with any sort of labeling that gets people to buy it. Power Jack's #1 seller is their "8,000W 12v" unit...simply because of their marketing. It works for sales, or they wouldn't do it... Just had someone get a "256GB 4-way USB FLASH drive." We've had fake sized-drives before--so I ran a handy Linux/Mac tool ("F3" - Fight Flash Fraud) which identified the actual size as basically 32GB. But I've bought a lot of stuff from AliExpress that does the job well for a ridiculously cheap price. Win some / lose some I guess. U-Powers are literally rebranded Power Jack inverters with nothing except the sticker on the label changed to (usually) double the Power Jack rating. I've heard of these, and seen photos a time or 2--but never actually looked at one myself. It might stand a half a chance at functioning EXCEPT for the fact that the PJ FETs are driven so poorly that they get far hotter than necessary. Case in point: the GS 12kw prototype running at full bore (~300A through the FETs)...barely break room temperature with a fan on 'em. Mathematically, they should be dissipating ~65W from a FET resistance standpoint; any significant amount higher is a result of driving/switching losses. I don't like the "double row solid block" design not only for the lack of heatsinking ability, but also because they put the caps across the end of the heatsinks--putting them farther away from the FETs AND blocking the airflow to boot. This is not the case. PJ has in-house engineers and employees (I've seen photos of their test benches and assembly lines). They wind their own transformers (I've have photos of the winding machine they have). They make their own inverter chassis with a CNC laser cutter (it's broken down before, I heard about it), and have a partially automated bending machine to shape the cut pieces. They cut and tap the screw holes in the chassis themselves. All inverter assembly is done in-house by PJ. (They outsource manufacturing of the PCBs, though they do hand-solder through-hole components.) Power Jack's manufacturing facilities are based in Guangxi, China. Parts you buy from PJ will either ship from China (where Power Jack is located), or one of their warehouses. Dunno where you saw this, but it is not true. All of their parts are locally sourced from Chinese manufacturers and markets. And they assemble their inverters themselves, in their own factory.
    1 point
  46. I had the batteries charging to full last night, with the charge amps set to 85%, and the throttle was automatically set to somewhere around 150%. Under those settings, I measured 13.5a 240vac (from a 7500 running watts generator) coming in, and I measured ~38a dc (~54-55v) coming out the other end. My ac loads were around 150 watts throughout the process, so by the inverter settings, my generator was running at approximately half load, and if my math is correct, the inverter was charging at about a 63% efficiency rate. Incoming Hz, as measured by the inverter, was 62 to 63. The next time I charge them, I'll have to increase the throttle as far as I can till I can get 28 to 29 amps coming in on the AC side, maybe see if I can even trip the 30 amp breaker. So far, so good.
    1 point
  47. https://www.bluesea.com/products/1991/PowerBar_1000_-_12_3_8in_Terminal_Studs
    1 point
  48. I bought this 'Upower' branded 24V DC / 230V AC '8000w' unit with Rev 10.3 boards in January to replace my aged powerjack '8000w' with v3 boards (with resistor ladder modified to produce a nominal 245V RMS output, similar to the grid voltage where I live). I have known since the start several years ago that these chinese inverters lie about power ratings, so I naturally expected no more than 4kW. That was fine because in reality I never need more than 3.5kW and the output is protected by a 16A RCBO anyway. I noticed that the new 'Upower' inverter was lighter than the old PJ and had one transformer instead of two. This single transformer (an ASL3) was about 1.5x the size of just one of the two transformers in the old unit. So obviously I could smell a rat there. However as the idle current was less than half of the old PJ unit (0.9A compared to 2.5A) I decided to give it a try for a while. It worked fine but the performance was not as good as the old unit with high loads - for example the microwave and induction hob took longer to cook things than they did with the old PJ. Nevertheless it performed it's duties without issue. In the early summer I did a comparison of the two units - at which point I found that the peaks of the sine wave on the new 'Upower' unit started to be flattened at about 1kW, with almost a square-wave output at 3.5kW load. Whereas the old PJ didn't begin to flatten until about 3kW. After further reading on this and many other forums I realised that this is due to the new transformer core being too small, and the winding ratio being incorrect. During the summer when there is more than enough solar input to keep the batteries charged, I reverted to the old PJ due to it's better performance and experimented on the 'Upower' unit with a new home-wound transformer based on a 52cm2 toroidal core which I obtained via ebay and stripped, then rewound. However although with my big new transformer the sine wave was still near perfect even with 3.5kW load, the DC idle current was back up into the old PJ's territory at ~2.5A. So after much reading about chokes etc I experimented with many, including winding my own choke on some 65mm E+I cores as suggested on other forums. However most of my efforts were in vain. The best idle current I achieved without deformation of the sine wave at high load was a couple of copper-strip wound chokes that I recovered from a scrap 48V DC rectifier. However although the chokes themselves give a good idle current (down to 1.1A with two of these chokes in parallell - one can't handle the current) without getting warm even at even 3.5kW load, the lead-ins to them are only 13mm2 and so even with 2 in parallel they get very hot. The way these chokes are built makes it near impossible to replace the leads without destroying the whole unit. So I bought a set of new PJ boards (v11.1 when delivered), a suitable casing to fit the boards and my home-made transformer and parked that project for the moment. This weekends task was to rebuild the Upower unit with some modifications to improve it's reliability, and perhaps if I am lucky also the output. I did the following: 1. Remove 1 turn from the LV side of the transformer and wind the surplus around a ferrite ring of similar size to the existing PJ one. Expected reduction in sine-wave flattening under load but doesn't really seem to have made any difference. 2. Replace crappy little fuseholders with good quality thermal circuit breakers 3. Add additional 45C fan thermal switch to heatsink which gets the hottest 4. Add manual switch with resistor to run fan continuously at ~50% when weather is warm during summer. 5. Add the 'missing' 4th capacitor to the mainboard. 6. Add remote on/off switch. I'm now more confident that this one will run well for some time, but I can't wait to build my new one. Below are some photos of the lightly modified upower unit and my old PJ unit, plus the Upower housing with my new tranny outside it during testing.
    1 point
  49. I forgot I was going to bring up the idle current issue. From what I've learned over the years using powerjacks, about the best we can do (in my non-expert opinion) is put one or two turns of the low voltage side of each of the transformer leads through a ferrite core. This is, of course, a compromise. But, not much more is gained by a large custom made and expensive choke. Yes, that large high current choke will reduce the idle current more than the two turns thru a core, but how much more and is it worth doing? That brings me to the point. I run my inverter to power my house. I never run it for any length of time with no load. It always has a load of some amount. Sometimes a large load. Anywhere from 10a to 95a in a given day's use. Probably showing my ignorance here, but what difference does it make what the no load current is if it never is run at no load? It seems way too much emphasis is put on idle current. Maybe I'm wrong. If so, maybe someone will explain.
    1 point
  50. there is a youtube guy who goes by lithium solar who talks about correct fuses for dc Yes I watch youtube all the time . Last week I change some of my 300 amp dc breaker because they trip for no reason . I try t fuse 400 amps and none trip when nothing is shorted and works ok .
    1 point
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